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Author Topic: the ending to the series was such a let down smh  (Read 906 times)

Offline florapaw

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the ending to the series was such a let down smh
« on: August 07, 2017, 11:15:45 AM »
hello you lovely people i hope life is treating you well and youre drinking plenty of water

but id like to briefly complain about the ending to the series* to people who sort of care. now dont get me wrong the series is an okay adaptation of the book, even though i have a few more complaints (but the usual; disrespecting the strong female character hyzenthlay is by making her into a functioning slab of meat and a waste of so much good potential, promoting hawkbit to a main character for him to get demoted again, making both dandelion and hawkbit utterly unlikable and yet trying to make them comedic-relief, to name a few. as you can see, i have a lot of qualms with this shows artistic choices).

back to the ending, i want everyone to know that i was thoroughly enjoying it (i had managed to forget about the whole hedge wizard/magic thing and naively thought it was forgotten for some strange reason) when the ending-ending came. the part where they used hannahs magic.

i remember being a little disgusted by this, hell, even by the first mention of magic. i could deal with silverweed' visions for two reasons: one, im super biased because silverweed is my son and i will protect him at all costs, and two, i assumed it was so they could have some difference between him and fiver considering theyre both seers. but hannahs magic took it too far. it was really pointless?? what was the point? if there was a point, i completely missed the mark and im ashamed of myself, but still. everything was so new and interesting; darkhaven was an interesting twist, and with woundwort still around i was on the edge of my seat™.

but all complaints aside, the ending was fantastic. for a while i honestly believed bigwig was dead - i remember sitting on the couch in my space pyjamas crying into a bag of corn chips at that point - and maybe it was just because the show was ending, but hawkbit and dandelion actually made me laugh?? crazy concept but it happened. still cant forgive them for my poor baby silverweed, but the shows ending was one of the best ive seen in a long time.

*i havent watched the show in a few months and i dont have the best memory so forgive me if my memories are inaccurate :)

Offline Chipster-roo

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the ending to the series was such a let down smh
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2017, 06:50:44 PM »
Oh, yes.  Yes yes yes.

I agree with pretty much everything you say in your post Florapaw.

Hyzenthlay was one of my favourite characters in the books and film, but Primrose is a waste of potential and a stereotype.  I don't especially like Hawkbit and Dandelion either, since Hawkbit can be a jerk sometimes and Dandelion's voice is so annoying, although they have some good moments, I guess.

But about the ending...I hate magic.  Honestly it kinda feels like the writers didn't know how to end the series without having any real violence (it's a kids' show we can't show blood!) so they just...went with magic.  It comes out of nowhere a few episodes before the end.  And magic is pretty much the only element of the entire series that would be impossible in real life (apart from the fact that these rabbits have vocal cords but meh).  Fiver and Silverweed's special abilities are really interesting (but Hyzenthlay's don't exist because instead we get Primrose...I miss you Hyz) and they seem so...realistic.

And speaking of Silverweed...why?  Why did he have to die?  In the book, the Watershippers didn't lose anyone in the last battle (in the film they lost Blackavar and that was pointless but meh).  Why did the series have to kill someone? And if they absolutely had to kill someone, why not a pointless/annoying character like Skree or Hawkbit?

Thank you for creating this thread Florapaw.
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Offline Hammy

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the ending to the series was such a let down smh
« Reply #2 on: August 08, 2017, 02:15:50 AM »
I'll take it a step further: season 3 as a whole was a disappointment. It strikes me very much as an afterthought, on a lot of fronts.

On aesthetics, I still really don't like the change of art style, with the dead eyes it gave certain characters (looking at you, Pipkin). It looks weird to me. And I cannot stand the accessories they gave the Dark Haven rabbits. Spartina's weird feather earring thing just looks straight out of DeviantArt to me.

On plot, Dark Haven comes out of nowhere. The tortoise and the magic she gives to Hannah come out of nowhere. The magical tornado that sucks up Woundwort and his army at the end is a total cop-out and may as well be a deus ex machina. I don't believe anything that happens in the season would happen in the world of Watership Down. These are still supposed to be relatively natural rabbits. There were moments in previous seasons I didn't believe, but this one just ramps it up.

On characters, to put it bluntly, I don't care about a lot of them. Spartina's arc makes me think there's an episode missing where she bonded more with Bigwig and showed more of who she is. Don't care about her. I don't like the characterization they gave Silverweed, and I don't like that they made him another seer and tried to make him likeable I understand why they did that for plot reasons, but I never warmed to him. I don't think I have to talk about new additions like Gluck or Skree, though, oddly, I don't mind either of them as much as some. The existing characters are fine I guess. Mostly no better, no worse as far as characterization goes. I just wish a hawk would carry off Pipkin; he looks and sounds like he's in pain the entire season by virtue of existing.

It's not a terrible story they tell. I generally enjoy it for what it is, but it strays so far from the world and ideas the book set up that I can't help but think of it as the post-jumped the shark season. The jump the shark moment being Woundwort having a heel face turn. No. No, you do not do that with Woundwort, that's not okay. It's like having Big Brother suddenly renounce his ways, it's incomprehensible. Even if he goes completely nuts right after.

But really, the best thing about season 3 was seeing Vervain stick it to Woundwort when they've been bagged by a poacher. That was great. I really like Vervain, still my favorite character by far. I'll take season 3 purely to have more of goat-bunny Starscream.

That got long. I have too much time on my hands. Pls no hurt me, is only opinion.

Offline Silverweed's Claws

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the ending to the series was such a let down smh
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2017, 04:54:42 AM »
I hate the ending too, but this post by @mrcynical highlights my thoughts better than I could ever have written them.

Quote from: Quote:on
Had a bit of a fridge-door realization;

this is literally the Deus Ex Machina

think about it; a literal god descends from the heavens to solve the writer's unsolvable problem (how can we kill Woundwart & his army, without killing anyone? because kid's show) quickly and completely to lead to a happy ending?

I didn't like the ending if I'm to be honest, but I can't dwell on that because I can't think of a better way to end it.

That said, this ending hurts the rest of the series, as it destroys the "morally grey" aspect of life and it destroys the "faith" part of the rabbit's religion.

When the writers had the Black Rabbit descend down and deliver righteous justice to Woundwart's regime, the writers are essentially offically declaring that Watership Down is righeous, and that Woundwart's army were hubrisic sinners. With that, the writers have dumbed the show down to just Good Guys vs Bad Guys. Which is a bit of a turn around considering the intrepid action the writers took at the end of the second season, when Woundwart was about to give up and offer peace, but Hazel & co. destroy Efrafa anyway. This built Woundwart into a believable character, and also challenged our assumption that Hazel was always fair and pacisiftic; it made Hazel look like a struggling leader doing what he thought was right, as opposed to what is right. Suddenly, he's not the perfect hero! Flaws! What makes a story great! But when the Black Rabbit comes down to saves Watership Down and destroy Woundwart, it means that Watership Down was always and objectively right - the writers burned down this degree of depth and struggle to the characters. The original had the dog released, which was just another witty defense idea that the rabbits came up with - no righteous and devine judgement, just rabbits protecting their warren.

The idea of faith is also destroyed in this episode, as since the Black Rabbit came down and acted, he is therefore objectively and scientifically real - it's no longer a matter of belief, faith, or struggling rabbits trying to explain the tragedy of their existence. The writers, with this move, declared that the rabbit's faith is real, that the black rabbit is real, and that there is a right and a wrong in life. What does that mean for the rest of the universe? The other animals, surely they have their own religions, does this invalidate their religions? What about human religion for the humans in the series? Is the rabbit's gods the only gods?

Oh, and what about the rest of Woundwart's army? Poor, innocent rabbits who are just following orders? Fed lies about a prophecy since birth? Perhaps they're scared that if they don't fight, Woundwart will kill them! Are all of the rabbits that were sucked into the sky truly guilty and deserving of whatever punishment awaits them?

The Magic created a lot of questions, which for me have festered into plot holes, burning through the fabric of a literary universe. Plus, Silverweed was neat, shame he died/lost his youth.

(Thanks to Chipster for finding it buried on the forum).
« Last Edit: July 15, 2018, 06:39:20 PM by Chipster-roo »

Offline Hazel

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the ending to the series was such a let down smh
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2017, 07:39:50 AM »
I agree with everything.

After not being overly keen on the start of season 3, I warmed up to the style and direction it took, but I still struggle with how some voices change. However the magic ending really seemed too farfetched. This is Watership Down, a show about rabbits finding home (essentially) and so forth. Not Hannah, who I like but felt didn't deserve that kind of responsibility, using some bizarre magic to solve everything.

And I won't repeat, but the points made in every post echo how I feel too.

Silverweed's direction I quite liked. I liked what they did with him, but I'm super into psychic abilities and such hence why Fiver is my favourite, so I think I am biased. I do wish they had shown more with Silverweed and Fiver together to further their similarities and differences but hey, it could be worse. I'm being picky. :p

Quote from: Hammy on  
On plot, Dark Haven comes out of nowhere. The tortoise and the magic she gives to Hannah come out of nowhere. The magical tornado that sucks up Woundwort and his army at the end is a total cop-out and may as well be a deus ex machina. I don't believe anything that happens in the season would happen in the world of Watership Down. These are still supposed to be relatively natural rabbits. There were moments in previous seasons I didn't believe, but this one just ramps it up.

Yeah, this.

I just ignore the parts of S3 I dislike, and focus on the parts I like  :el-ahrairah

« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 07:41:29 AM by Hazel »
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Offline florapaw

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the ending to the series was such a let down smh
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2017, 08:50:35 AM »
i totally agree with your last comment Hazel; ive watched the same four episodes more times than i can count

Offline Vesper

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the ending to the series was such a let down smh
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2017, 12:49:27 PM »
Quote from: Quote:on 
Had a bit of a fridge-door realization;

this is literally the Deus Ex Machina

think about it; a literal god descends from the heavens to solve the writer's unsolvable problem (how can we kill Woundwart & his army, without killing anyone? because kid's show) quickly and completely to lead to a happy ending?

I didn't like the ending if I'm to be honest, but I can't dwell on that because I can't think of a better way to end it.

That said, this ending hurts the rest of the series, as it destroys the "morally grey" aspect of life and it destroys the "faith" part of the rabbit's religion.

When the writers had the Black Rabbit descend down and deliver righteous justice to Woundwart's regime, the writers are essentially offically declaring that Watership Down is righeous, and that Woundwart's army were hubrisic sinners. With that, the writers have dumbed the show down to just Good Guys vs Bad Guys. Which is a bit of a turn around considering the intrepid action the writers took at the end of the second season, when Woundwart was about to give up and offer peace, but Hazel & co. destroy Efrafa anyway. This built Woundwart into a believable character, and also challenged our assumption that Hazel was always fair and pacisiftic; it made Hazel look like a struggling leader doing what he thought was right, as opposed to what is right. Suddenly, he's not the perfect hero! Flaws! What makes a story great! But when the Black Rabbit comes down to saves Watership Down and destroy Woundwart, it means that Watership Down was always and objectively right - the writers burned down this degree of depth and struggle to the characters. The original had the dog released, which was just another witty defense idea that the rabbits came up with - no righteous and devine judgement, just rabbits protecting their warren.

The idea of faith is also destroyed in this episode, as since the Black Rabbit came down and acted, he is therefore objectively and scientifically real - it's no longer a matter of belief, faith, or struggling rabbits trying to explain the tragedy of their existence. The writers, with this move, declared that the rabbit's faith is real, that the black rabbit is real, and that there is a right and a wrong in life. What does that mean for the rest of the universe? The other animals, surely they have their own religions, does this invalidate their religions? What about human religion for the humans in the series? Is the rabbit's gods the only gods?

Oh, and what about the rest of Woundwart's army? Poor, innocent rabbits who are just following orders? Fed lies about a prophecy since birth? Perhaps they're scared that if they don't fight, Woundwart will kill them! Are all of the rabbits that were sucked into the sky truly guilty and deserving of whatever punishment awaits them?

The Magic created a lot of questions, which for me have festered into plot holes, burning through the fabric of a literary universe. Plus, Silverweed was neat, shame he died/lost his youth.

 :bigwig3 I could not emphasize more on how accurately this portrays my thoughts on the Season 3 finale. *Tackle-hugs with Nuzzles*
« Last Edit: August 08, 2017, 12:49:51 PM by Vesper »
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Offline Hammy

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the ending to the series was such a let down smh
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2017, 04:30:26 PM »
Quote from: Silverweed's Claws on Aug 8 2017, 12:54:42 AM
I hate the ending too, but this post by @mrcynical highlights my thoughts better than I could ever have written them.

Quote
Had a bit of a fridge-door realization;

this is literally the Deus Ex Machina
Man, I miss having that guy around.
« Last Edit: July 15, 2018, 06:40:23 PM by Chipster-roo »

Offline Silverweed's Claws

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the ending to the series was such a let down smh
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2017, 04:56:28 PM »
Miss him too. Hopefully work would ease up enough for him to pay a visit :)

Offline Chipster-roo

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the ending to the series was such a let down smh
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2017, 02:10:36 AM »
Quote from: Hammy on Aug 7 2017, 10:15:50 PM
I'll take it a step further: season 3 as a whole was a disappointment...
You make a lot of valid points Hammy.  I agree with most of what you say. Although, I kinda like Spartina.  Her feather is cute, and it's not like those other Darkhaveners who have like five of them.  Although I agree that she could have used better characterisation.

Quote from: Hammy on Aug 7 2017, 10:15:50 PM
I just wish a hawk would carry off Pipkin; he looks and sounds like he's in pain the entire season by virtue of existing.
That line was so funny :hannah4 You make a valid point though.
Anyway...

That entire scene really disturbs me...

Quote from: florapaw on Aug 8 2017, 04:50:35 AM
i totally agree with your last comment Hazel; ive watched the same four episodes more times than i can count
I'm rather curious: which four episodes? :)

Quote from: Hammy on Aug 8 2017, 12:30:26 PM
Man, I miss having that guy around.
I miss him too :(
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Offline florapaw

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the ending to the series was such a let down smh
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2017, 06:01:52 AM »
those four episodes are the beginning of the end, the spy, the eyes of silverweed and darkhaven.
as much as i hate most of the random things added in the series, i think darkhaven is pretty good and interesting and i will fight anyone who feels differently lmao :D

Offline Hazel

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the ending to the series was such a let down smh
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2017, 08:06:04 AM »
Quote from: florapaw on Aug 9 2017, 02:01:52 AM
those four episodes are the beginning of the end, the spy, the eyes of silverweed and darkhaven.
as much as i hate most of the random things added in the series, i think darkhaven is pretty good and interesting and i will fight anyone who feels differently lmao :D
The Eyes of Silverweed is definitely my S3 favourite.
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Offline Silverweed's Claws

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the ending to the series was such a let down smh
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2017, 02:37:05 PM »
Don't you guys think it would have made MUCH more sense for Campion to sacrifice himself instead of Silverweed? He had lost his will to live and the Black Rabbit implies -and flat out says- that he won't rest until Woundwort is defeated. There's probably something I'm overlooking (it's been an actual while since I last saw the series) but I can't help but finding it a bit odd a decision.

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the ending to the series was such a let down smh
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2017, 02:54:24 PM »
First: He didn't know the spell to call the BRoI.

Second: He find his will to live again when he was together with Blackberry in Darkhaven ("I feel that the shadow of the Black Rabbit of Inlé is lifting from my soul"). He was ready to sacrifice himself to save Watership Down, but so was Silverweed too.

Third: With "he won't last until Woundwort is defeated", the BRoI means that Campion has to finish his task.

At least, those are my opinions  :darkling
« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 02:54:42 PM by Darkling Nocturnal »


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Offline Chipster-roo

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the ending to the series was such a let down smh
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2017, 03:49:21 PM »
Quote from: Hazel on Aug 9 2017, 04:06:04 AM
Quote from: florapaw on Aug 9 2017, 02:01:52 AM
those four episodes are the beginning of the end, the spy, the eyes of silverweed and darkhaven.
as much as i hate most of the random things added in the series, i think darkhaven is pretty good and interesting and i will fight anyone who feels differently lmao :D
The Eyes of Silverweed is definitely my S3 favourite.
Mine too :D


As for Campion sacrificing himself, I like the idea.  Silverweed is a nice character (if somewhat underused), while I never really cared much about Campion.  Sure, if he died Blackberry would be sad, but she would move on.  She survived 25 episodes without him, she'll be all right after a while.  I'm not really a fan of Blackberry/Campion anyway, but I'll leave that for another thread.

Quote from: Darkling Nocturnal on Aug 9 2017, 10:54:24 AM
First: He didn't know the spell to call the BRoI.
Neither did Silverweed; he had to penetrate Hannah's mind to get it.  You make a valid point, though, that it would have been more complicated for Campion to obtain the spell...
« Last Edit: August 09, 2017, 03:50:05 PM by Chipster-roo »
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