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Author Topic: Blackberry is a doe, don't you know  (Read 388 times)

Offline MeadowRabbit

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Blackberry is a doe, don't you know
« on: April 17, 2018, 08:21:34 PM »
In the first series, or at least from what I remember, there is no love interest for Blackberry. It seems like she's there to be a Mother Hen of sorts - a voice of reason to the boys. When they arrive at Watership Down and Hazel starts saying that they need more does, Blackberry seems to be forgotten as actually being a doe herself. When no one shows an interest in her, do you think she would have felt a bit put out that no one would want to be her mate? In the book and film, there are no does, which makes the need for does greater. Here, is she somewhat sidelined? Do you think she felt a bit sad about it, deep down?

 :blackberry2

Of course the other rabbits initially there would seem more like friends, yet you'd still think somebody would couple with her sooner? Even when they do get a few more rabbits. Now that's thinking more like actual rabbits/the book/the film, and I realise the series takes a more child-level approach and Blackberry becomes just 'one of the crew' and it would seem odd for one of the established males to suddenly want to be with her romantically. But it does seem odd for this doe to be there, and they want more does, and she's still there for how many months, uncoupled.

I understand that Blackberry later gets a mate (I will watch the other two series eventually!) which tells me they thought it wasn't really fair no one wanted to be with the character all that time, that it somehow made her seem an unattractive prospect (or basically that they didn't even really think about it), and she probably had better couple with someone. But this thread is more about the situation before she actually gets a love interest.

I'm not sure why I thought about this today. Possibly I dreamt it for some unexciting reason??? So I thought might as well post my little thoughts on this. Not really sure exactly what I'm asking, haha. :D

Oh yeah, so do you think Blackberry would have been upset (if you want to put more depth to the series characters) about no one wanting to be her mate?  :blackberry3 And any other thoughts you might have on the matter. I'm sure I intended to have far deeper thoughts on this! Unless you think this thread is stupid and pointless! :D
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Offline Magic-Rabbit

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Blackberry is a doe, don't you know
« Reply #1 on: April 17, 2018, 09:33:46 PM »
Not pointless but most people probably already realised that since it's been nearly 2 decades since the WD TV Series started airing, at least in the United Kingdom.

"All the world will be your enemy, Prince of a Thousand enemies. And when they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you; digger, listener, runner, Prince with the swift warning. Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed."- Lord Frith

Offline Claws

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Blackberry is a doe, don't you know
« Reply #2 on: April 17, 2018, 10:12:17 PM »
Not pointless at all! I enjoy your write-ups, Meadow :)

Offline MeadowRabbit

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Blackberry is a doe, don't you know
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2018, 04:20:51 PM »
Cheers. ;)

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Offline Magic-Rabbit

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Blackberry is a doe, don't you know
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2018, 04:49:12 PM »
What I mean is that since it aired in 1999 many people have ended up researching the TV series over these past 20 years (nearly) to realise that in it, Blackberry is a Doe instead of a Buck like in the movie.
"All the world will be your enemy, Prince of a Thousand enemies. And when they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you; digger, listener, runner, Prince with the swift warning. Be cunning, and full of tricks, and your people will never be destroyed."- Lord Frith

Offline Chipster-roo

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Blackberry is a doe, don't you know
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2018, 05:06:31 PM »
Quote from: Magic-Rabbit on Apr 18 2018, 12:49:12 PM
What I mean is that since it aired in 1999 many people have ended up researching the TV series over these past 20 years (nearly) to realise that in it, Blackberry is a Doe instead of a Buck like in the movie.
That's...not what this thread is about... :blackberry3




It is true that Blackberry does not have a love interest in the first season.  It only happens VERY late in the second season.

His identity?  Campion... :campion2


And I don't think that's a good thing.  It comes out of nowhere, and these two have absolutely nothing in common.


But about the situation before...I agree with you, Meadow, about her being the "voice of reason".  I don't really think that she would be sad over not having any mate.  It's true that none of the bucks seem to show any romantic interest in her, but she doesn't show any romantic interest towards anyone else either.  I always assumed that she just wasn't interested in mating, and the others respected that. (or that she was a lesbian; she did hang around a lot with Primrose :primrose )

Quote from: MeadowRabbit on Apr 17 2018, 04:21:34 PM
Here, is she somewhat sidelined?
This sentence really caught my attention.  It really seems that she IS.  Out of all the original Sandleford gang, she is the one who gets the least attention until season 3.  Following the escape from Efrafa, she gets left out of most important missions, including Pipkin's rescue, the trip to the Big Water, and the Redstone expeditions.  That really annoys me; she deserved better than that :(
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Offline Myrkin

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Blackberry is a doe, don't you know
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2018, 11:22:56 AM »
That's interesting topic, MeadowRabbit. :)

I would prefer it, if the tv series would take its time in developing its romantic relationships, instead of quickly moving from first infatuation to becoming mates. When it comes to love plot (as much as other type of plots), it's about the journey and not the destination. It's about seeing how characters bond with each other and how their attraction comes out in small and big ways. It's about showing us, the audience, why those characters have feelings for each other, so when they officially become a couple, it will make sense to us and we will be able to see it as natural consequence of everything we've witnessed up to this point.

So I would have liked, if Blackberry had to have a mate, it would be someone she had time to get to know. That would mean either someone who already was on Watership Down since season one or someone from outside that warren, but who would have more scenes with her before "tying the knot", so to speak.

Question to everybody: if Blackberry was to be given a romantic plot in season one (or in season two, but earlier), then who would you see her with? :)
"My heart has joined the thousand, for my friend stopped running today." - Hazel

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Offline Hickory

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Blackberry is a doe, don't you know
« Reply #7 on: April 19, 2018, 10:46:06 PM »
Quote from: Myrkin on Apr 19 2018, 07:22:56 AM
That's interesting topic, MeadowRabbit. :)

I would prefer it, if the tv series would take its time in developing its romantic relationships, instead of quickly moving from first infatuation to becoming mates. When it comes to love plot (as much as other type of plots), it's about the journey and not the destination. It's about seeing how characters bond with each other and how their attraction comes out in small and big ways. It's about showing us, the audience, why those characters have feelings for each other, so when they officially become a couple, it will make sense to us and we will be able to see it as natural consequence of everything we've witnessed up to this point.

So I would have liked, if Blackberry had to have a mate, it would be someone she had time to get to know. That would mean either someone who already was on Watership Down since season one or someone from outside that warren, but who would have more scenes with her before "tying the knot", so to speak.

Question to everybody: if Blackberry was to be given a romantic plot in season one (or in season two, but earlier), then who would you see her with? :)
That’s rather hard. Hazel likely would be the choice since he’s the one that sticks by her side for new ideas to survive and someone did write a short story about the two of them bonding. :hazel2

The other rabbits don’t seem to be much of a match for her. Hawkbit is rather grouchy, Dandelion is a good story teller and joker but doesn’t fancy a love interest until the doe Heather comes along in Season 3 which pits him and Hawkbit into a battle to win her heart so that’s out of the question. Bigwig is the only one left and he’s more focused on preparing for enemies. Unlike Spartina comes into the picture which allows him to open up to love, he’s hardly one to go after romance.

Offline Chipster-roo

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Blackberry is a doe, don't you know
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2018, 08:28:08 PM »
I agree with Myrkin about how it would have been better to allow relationships to develop over time, rather than having everyone fall in love at first sight...

As for the question, I agree with Hickory that Hazel would be the best possibility.  However, since Hazel falls in love with Primrose instead, there is no chance of him mating with Blackberry.  But like Hickory points out, Bigwig, Dandelion and Hawkbit aren't really valid possibilities either.  I don't see her with Pipkin either; she's more like a mother to him, with his "real" mother killed by a weasel.

It really seems that from the original Sandleford gang, there wasn't really anyone who would be a perfect match for Blackberry, which could possibly explain why it took her so long to fall in love with anyone. (but even then, I really don't like the relationship that did end up happening...)
« Last Edit: April 20, 2018, 08:54:43 PM by Chipster-roo »
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Offline Myrkin

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Blackberry is a doe, don't you know
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2018, 09:32:33 PM »
You make good points. :) Aside from original gang we can consider characters that joined the warren after it was founded, but before the end of Season Two. There are captains Broom and Holly; Blackavar: Strawberry; Clover; Primrose.

Now, Captain Holly in Season One might not be in the right mind to pursue any love relationship (as he is suffering from trauma after witnessing destruction of Sandleford and then learning about the fate of Pimpernel - the only other survivor), but he could have brought up the fact that the warren needs next generation to survive and could have asked whether the original Watershipers did any "work" on that score. :p
"My heart has joined the thousand, for my friend stopped running today." - Hazel

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Offline Hickory

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Blackberry is a doe, don't you know
« Reply #10 on: April 23, 2018, 02:55:30 AM »
Quote from: Myrkin on Apr 22 2018, 05:32:33 PM
You make good points. :) Aside from original gang we can consider characters that joined the warren after it was founded, but before the end of Season Two. There are captains Broom and Holly; Blackavar: Strawberry; Clover; Primrose.

Now, Captain Holly in Season One might not be in the right mind to pursue any love relationship (as he is suffering from trauma after witnessing destruction of Sandleford and then learning about the fate of Pimpernel - the only other survivor), but he could have brought up the fact that the warren needs next generation to survive and could have asked whether the original Watershipers did any "work" on that score. :p
The other 3 males we got for the 1st season are a bit trickery.

1. Blackavar seemed more keen on just escaping from the rule of a tyrant in the 3 speaking roles he got and of course given that Stephen Gately was probably busy touring with his boyband at the time, the writers couldn’t do much more with his rabbit aside from a few non speaking cameos. Any chance of him wanting to mate are about the same level as Vervain not lying to the General to suit his needs. He’s definitely out.
2. Strawberry possibly might fit the role but he’d have to grow into possible development on that since he decided to leave a Warren surrounded by snares and episode 4 showed us how adjusting to a more regular style of life took time because he’s used to being lazy. It took him till the last part of that episode for him to finally contribute to the digging for starters.
3. Captain Broom could fit the role but to me, that would feel more like a job to help keep the Warren going. He feels more like a mentor who could share many stories. Plus I don’t know my rabbit biology but could old ones like him even produce offspring?

Offline Chipster-roo

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Blackberry is a doe, don't you know
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2018, 10:54:46 PM »
Quote from: Hickory on Apr 22 2018, 10:55:30 PM
Plus I don’t know my rabbit biology but could old ones like him even produce offspring?
I don't know either; I suppose it would depend on how healthy he is.  But either way, I wouldn't see him mating with Blackberry, or any other doe for that matter; I really like a Holly/Broom relationship as you described in another thread :captain-broom :holly

Also...


Perhaps Blackberry/Strawberry could have become a thing :)


<small><small>(also I wrote a few Blackberry/Primrose fanfics, but I don't really plan to post them anytime soon)</small></small>
« Last Edit: July 15, 2018, 06:42:07 PM by Chipster-roo »
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Offline MeadowRabbit

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Blackberry is a doe, don't you know
« Reply #12 on: April 28, 2018, 05:03:53 PM »
Thanks for the responses. An interesting question, Myrkin!

I don't really see Blackberry with any of the initial characters. Possibly Bigwig at a push... her voice of reason against his rush into things head first mindset could be an interesting match. She could be telling Bigwig to think a little more about the situation first, before dashing ahead, and it could balance his character out a bit more. Pipkin the -eternal child-rabbit- definitely not, exactly for that reason! Dandelion seems a bit in his own storytelling world to be interested in a mate (does he ever get a mate?), and just not suited. Hawkbit would annoy Blackberry with his negative attitude! Not sure with Hazel - he thinks her clever for sure, but I guess he was always looking for a certain type! :p
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Offline Chipster-roo

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Blackberry is a doe, don't you know
« Reply #13 on: April 29, 2018, 11:09:01 PM »
Quote from: MeadowRabbit on Apr 28 2018, 01:03:53 PM
Dandelion seems a bit in his own storytelling world to be interested in a mate (does he ever get a mate?), and just not suited.
He never does.  Early in season 3, he competes with Hawkbit over Heather :heather but she chooses to mate with someone else (Moss) instead :moss

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Offline Acacia Heartstrings

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« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2018, 01:55:07 PM »
For something Blackberry is a love. I read the comments, she could not stay as a couple with any rabbit in the band, because she did not fall in love with any of them, there was no chemistry ... That is for the purpose of the series, but in real life the rabbits fight for the couple, as explained in the Watership Down book, but in the series they focused on finding friends to enlarge the burrow.   :blackberry2
Maybe due to the intelligence of Blackberry, all the other rabbits she considered them something simple, until she met Captain Campion. A strong and prepared leader. The decision was taken.


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