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Author Topic: So... what did exactly happen to Vervain?  (Read 1179 times)

Offline Claws

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So... what did exactly happen to Vervain?
« Reply #15 on: December 31, 2014, 07:08:23 PM »
Quote from: Darkling Nocturnal on Dec 31 2014, 01:47:53 PM
Quote from: Quote:on 
But, IIRC, Moss did empathize with Vervain after he lost his rank.

No, he didn't exactly. He thought, Vervain was stark raving mad.

Moss (after Vervain reached his warren): "Look, what we got here, guys. Where's your Hedgewizard, Vervain? Having a tea party with the flower hedgehog? Or is he swimming with the grouse?"

Yeah, I forgot about that bit. I guess that it has a lot to do with the fact that that is the only episode of the entire series that I can't stand :doh

Offline Darkling Nocturnal

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So... what did exactly happen to Vervain?
« Reply #16 on: December 31, 2014, 08:22:59 PM »
Really? That's one of the better ones. There are far worse episodes than this one :blink


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So... what did exactly happen to Vervain?
« Reply #17 on: December 31, 2014, 08:31:26 PM »
Quote from: Darkling Nocturnal on Dec 31 2014, 03:22:59 PM
Really? That's one of the better ones. There are far worse episodes than this one :blink

I honestly found it painful to sit thru.

Which one do you consider to be one of the worst?

Offline Darkling Nocturnal

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So... what did exactly happen to Vervain?
« Reply #18 on: December 31, 2014, 08:49:37 PM »
Episode 2.10 - 2.12 are very hard to watch (alright, 2.12 is a bit better, but yet...)


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So... what did exactly happen to Vervain?
« Reply #19 on: December 31, 2014, 09:40:15 PM »
Quote from: Darkling Nocturnal on Dec 31 2014, 03:49:37 PM
Episode 2.10 - 2.12 are very hard to watch (alright, 2.12 is a bit better, but yet...)

I agree about the first one, but I LOVE Bigwig's way :exactly

Offline Myrkin

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So... what did exactly happen to Vervain?
« Reply #20 on: December 31, 2014, 10:27:46 PM »
Quote from: Silverweed's ClawsonDec 31 2014, 03:31:26 PM
Quote from: Darkling Nocturnal on Dec 31 2014, 03:22:59 PM
Really? That's one of the better ones. There are far worse episodes than this one :blink

I honestly found it painful to sit thru.

Which one do you consider to be one of the worst?
Do you mean the episode "The Great Game"? The one where Watershippers make Vervain look insane? If so, then I can see why would you find it painful. I know it was the way to save Campion, but something about the idea of causing Efrafans and Vervain himself to doubt his own sanity makes me a bit uncomfortable.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2014, 10:28:08 PM by Myrkin »
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Offline Claws

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So... what did exactly happen to Vervain?
« Reply #21 on: December 31, 2014, 10:32:36 PM »
Quote from: Myrkin on Dec 31 2014, 05:27:46 PM
Quote from: Silverweed's ClawsonDec 31 2014, 03:31:26 PM
Quote from: Darkling Nocturnal on Dec 31 2014, 03:22:59 PM
Really? That's one of the better ones. There are far worse episodes than this one :blink

I honestly found it painful to sit thru.

Which one do you consider to be one of the worst?
Do you mean the episode "The Great Game"? The one where Watershippers make Vervain look insane? If so, then I can see why would you find it painful. I know it was the way to save Campion, but something about the idea of causing Efrafans and Vervain himself to doubt his own sanity makes me a bit uncomfortable.

Exactly that one.

I don't know, but I ended up feeling sorry for the old guy. He didn't deserve that (though I'm surprised that Woundwort didn't... ya know... kill him after such a monumental failure).


Offline Myrkin

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So... what did exactly happen to Vervain?
« Reply #22 on: December 31, 2014, 10:49:03 PM »
Yeah, I felt sorry for him too.

Well... Maybe Woundwort thought that since Vervain wasn't sane, then he couldn't be held fully accountable for his actions and so making him work as slave was a punishment enough.

Or maybe producers of the show didn't want to cause a mood dissonance amongst viewers and they preferred to avoid something like this:

"Hurray! Our heroes saved Campion! By causing Vervain's execution for his insanity, even though he wasn't crazy at all and he really saw what he said he did. So... Uhm... Yay?"

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Offline Darkling Nocturnal

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So... what did exactly happen to Vervain?
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2015, 06:01:55 PM »
I think, Woundwort need workers. Kill a rabbit that could serve as a slave is dumb.


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So... what did exactly happen to Vervain?
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2015, 09:49:19 PM »
Wow.  This thread was last posted in a year ago and here is another post.

But anyway, back to what happened to :vervain after the last battle...

Redstone and Efrafa are destroyed and he would never go to the warren of the shining wires, which may have colapsed because when :silverweed3 left, all the rabbits there except :cowslip were still in a trance...

Myrkin's post about Darkhaven is really interesting, but the fact remains that :vervain2 would never have a chance at leading a good life over there.  There is not a single rabbit he could win a fight against, except maybe a kitten, but I doubt he would resort to something so low.

So what's left?  Surrendering to Watership Down and begging to forgiveness?  Probably not, he is too proud to do something like that.

Really, I think the sole reason he survived the last battle was so that if a fourth season was made, they wouldn't have to create new villains from scratch, they would at least have him.
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Offline Claws

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So... what did exactly happen to Vervain?
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2015, 10:34:22 PM »
Quote from: Quote:on 
Really, I think the sole reason he survived the last battle was so that if a fourth season was made, they wouldn't have to create new villains from scratch, they would at least have him.

That's a really interesting possibility, but you said it in your post... Vervain's just too weak and lacks all leadership skills to become a threat on his own or to recruit other rabbits to follow him into battle. Now, if they planned to have him serving another major villain, then yes... I can see that happening.

Maybe he just survived so the ending wouldn't look so cruel.


Offline mistercynical

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So... what did exactly happen to Vervain?
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2015, 10:42:23 PM »
I think he survived for two reasons;

the first being that it fits his character (running from danger) and the second being that the writers probably tried to save as many characters as possible for another season, which is also why Granite survived.

I don't think it was any more than that, they wouldn't have written or planned for the next season until it was approved by the station, so they'd just preserve the characters and wait until the next season's production began.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2015, 10:43:52 PM by mistercynical »
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Offline Darkling Nocturnal

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So... what did exactly happen to Vervain?
« Reply #27 on: December 10, 2015, 06:03:01 AM »
I don't think, they keep a backdoor open for another season. It's simply not necessary to kill every (now needless) character.

And yes, the thread was one year old. Why not reactivate old threads, when they lead to new discussions? ;)


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So... what did exactly happen to Vervain?
« Reply #28 on: August 03, 2016, 11:47:42 AM »
I really don't think Vervain would willingly return to Darkhaven. The place doesn't suit him at all, being so combat-oriented, plus its location isn't very nice. Unlike the Darkhaven rabbits (who could have kin or mates or friends there) he has no-one to return to in that warren. There is absolutely no reason for him to go there.
He would never go to the Warren of the Shining Wires either because not only is it a deathtrap, he was also thoroughly freaked out by the rabbits there.
Redstone and Efrafa are destroyed so that's no option and he doesn't know the location of Moss' new warren or even the fact that he has a new warren. Besides, since he was despised in Efrafa, I doubt he'd risk going to them anyway. And he obviously wouldn't go to WSD.
That only leaves Buttercup's warren (that we know of) and personally I like to think that through a bit of luck or help he ended up there. Buttercup would accept him into her warren and he could live out the rest of his days there in peace. (Because if he doesn't find a warren I fear his days are numbered. He wouldn't survive long as a hlessi.)

Now for the Darkhaven survivors... I agree that it could go several ways depending on who takes charge and how they view the failed prophecy.
I always found the Speaker of the Past to be an intriguing character. The whole Dark One prophecy actually. (Is it said where that prophecy came from? I can't remember) It's strange how it gets fulfilled but also not. Like, the Dark One does show up, he meets the description and he does lead them into battle. But it's not glorious. They lose, many rabbits die and Darkhaven is left leaderless and direction-less. So does that mean the prophecy is fake? Or was it interpreted wrong? Or something else entirely? I wonder. But the fact is that the Speaker spoke (hah) of the prophecy and spread it so she is undoubtedly associated with it. So, would they even let her take over afterwards, seeing as what she's been saying has proven untrue? Maybe they'd even harm her, blame her for the death of their soldiers because they trusted Woundwort because of her prophecy. But then who would become leader? And what will that leader -Speaker or other rabbit- do next? Somehow I don't think WSD would be very willing to take in Darkhaven rabbits... but perhaps they can forgive them enough to help them find a new warren? Help them establish a new one so that they may co-exist as allies from that point on? Hmmm, it really is a pity they never elaborated on this matter.


Now Granite, I think, may join the Watershippers after all. He does feel loyalty towards Blackberry after all and I think Campion would vouch for him as well. So, out of all the Darkhaven rabbits, I think he'd be the one to join them. He also seemed to have gotten along with Spartina when she was still in Darkhaven. So yeah, I can see Granite joining WSD, but the rest of them, not really.

Also, the reason why Vervain and Granite survived is easily explained if you say it was for a fourth season... but you could explain most things from a production point-of-view and personally I find such explanations rather unsatisfying.
So, why did they survive? Vervain, I think, because surviving is what he does. He sees danger, he runs from it. He did it before so why wouldn't he do it again? ...in a way it's strange not more rabbits flee since that seems like the most natural thing for them to do...
As for Granite, I think normally he would've fought on harder but because of what happened with Blackberry his heart wasn't in it any more. He didn't really want to take down WSD that much so he is much easier to sway to stop fighting and flee.
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Offline Acacia Heartstrings

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So... what did exactly happen to Vervain?
« Reply #29 on: August 03, 2016, 01:52:39 PM »
Both the series and the book I'm 90% sure that Vervain is dead. The black rabbit Inle in the description that was released to destroy everything that was rabbit out of its burrow or away from home, all danger and predator lurked that day.    :vervain
  Many rabbits must die that day and survive at least more than half of the army. As for Wondwort I have the firm belief that it is still alive, but so injured, that would never fight again.  :woundwort3
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