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Author Topic: The Magic  (Read 828 times)

Offline Darkling Nocturnal

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« on: March 01, 2015, 03:47:16 PM »
Alright, it's time for the end of the series.  :wave

Yes, that's the most controversial episode of the series. But I still like the finale. In my opinion, we have a good fight between Woundwort and Bigwig. We have a good fight between Woundwort and Campion. We have some good fights between the Watership Down and Darkhaven rabbits.

And then, we have the Black Rabbit of Inlé!

Say, what you want, but it's appearance is simply amazing. And this wouldn't be possible without magic. Generally, the fact, that someone has to call the Black Rabbit was explained very well.

Of course, there's no real fight between Woundwort and the Black Rabbit, but that wouldn't be really realistic (if this expression could be used with such a finale).

Yes, it's a bit like a cut-off. But Watership Down is safe (Woundwort simply was the only threat for the warren). I don't think, Darkhaven is out for revenge. Even Granite begins to doubt at Woundwort's plan to destroy Watership Down.

Campion (who was leader in Darkhaven) is on Watership Down's site, Granite is on their site, Spartina likewise. Everything in Darkhaven was build on the prophecy, that Woundwort will lead them to new glory. So I even could imagine, that they could convince the others to leave Darkhaven and maybe join Watership Down.

Yes, those are all thoughts that goes beyond the series. But why not have some thinkings?


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Offline Hawkbit

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« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2015, 12:48:30 AM »
Woah woah woah...hold on a sec here.  I just re-watched this again....how did Granite get back with Woundwort's group?  He was saved at the river and supposedly anyway, went with Campion and Hannah, yet he clearly isn't on Watership Down.  If he was already questioning the whole bit about Woundwort leading, then he had the opportune time to leave.  I hadn't seen the episode in a while and just saw that jarring continuity error. :p

Actually, I think we talked about this before as well (just forgot in which topic) but I don't think Hannah could've ever called on the black rabbit.  It would have to be a rabbit, and only one could see the spell.  Poor Silverweed was doomed from the start.

Offline Darkling Nocturnal

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« Reply #2 on: March 10, 2015, 05:14:34 AM »
I don't know, if Granite was already questioning Woundwort's leading at this point. Maybe he joined Woundwort again, because for him, he was the savior (like the prophecy said). He first said that, when they reached Watership Down IIRC. And why did he help Campion and Blackberry? I would say, simply because Blackberry saved his life.

The Silverweed-part is an interesting idea. So Hannah was just something like a keeper of the spell for Silverweed (because without Hannah, he wouldn't had known it).? Again an interesting idea.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2015, 05:15:11 AM by Darkling Nocturnal »


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Offline Acacia Heartstrings

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« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2015, 12:02:58 AM »
Oh dear ... I wanted to comment a lot on this topic, but for now I can not. Just as the end of Watership Down where hazel dies, here Silverweed is sacrificed to save all Watership Down. It is a theme harder for me. At the moment I do not comment on this issue.
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Offline Hawkbit

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« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2015, 11:26:56 PM »
^ Maybe the question is, did Silverweed deserve to be the savior?  Would it have been even more powerful dramatically if a different rabbit gave his life for the warren? Silverweed was hardly a resident there.  What if Fiver called on the black rabbit instead?  Now there's a sad ending.

Offline Darkling Nocturnal

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« Reply #5 on: April 17, 2015, 08:44:55 PM »
But Fiver wasn't able to read others minds. Alright, he sees Woundwort's past (involuntary) and had a connection with Silverweed (more probably because of their special abilities). And when Blackberry touched him in the third season, he had a vision of her future.

But I don't think, that he can touch someone and see into his/her heart or read his/her mind.

Of course, the makers of the series could implement something like Fiver gets parts of Silverweeds abilities after their soul-connection. But that's not the case.


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Offline Darkling Nocturnal

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« Reply #6 on: May 08, 2015, 04:15:41 PM »
Quote from: Hawkbit on Mar 9 2015, 08:48:30 PM
Hannah could've ever called on the black rabbit.  It would have to be a rabbit, and only one could see the spell.  Poor Silverweed was doomed from the start.
That's an interesting theory. But I think, the magic could've been used by Hannah.

We see that on the following picture:



But maybe, when she used the spell, something different has happened. Maybe, she has transformed into a carrot or something  :D

I imagine that:

Silverweed looks totally shocked.

Hannah: "What's wrong?"

Silverweeed: "Nothing. You look tasty. Small, but tasty."
 :hawkbit2


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Offline Acacia Heartstrings

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« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2015, 03:56:17 PM »
Quote from: Hawkbit on Mar 11 2015, 07:26:56 PM
^ Maybe the question is, did Silverweed deserve to be the savior?  Would it have been even more powerful dramatically if a different rabbit gave his life for the warren? Silverweed was hardly a resident there.  What if Fiver called on the black rabbit instead?  Now there's a sad ending.
Because no one has to die. In the book Watership Down, any high hill rabbit dies. But Fiver mentioned in the book that Silverweed surely died long ago. Then be true to the book and adapting it to the series and not lose any important rabbit, Silverweed is the sacrifice and also a savior. Watership Down is not saved by a dog, but by a supernatural magical event beyond. General Woundwort disappears forever and becomes a legend.
At least Silverweed dies ... only detract years.
I love that bunny!   :silverweed

Importantly, remember that powers Silverweed are more developed than in Fiver therefore not only read minds, read the hearts of rabbits. So the cone rather than themselves.  :blackberry
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Offline Lord of the Lough

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« Reply #8 on: May 09, 2015, 06:33:10 PM »
Haha Hannah looks so nervous it's crazy!
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Offline Darkling Nocturnal

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« Reply #9 on: May 14, 2015, 03:11:51 PM »
Quote from: Captain HollyonMay 9 2015, 02:33:10 PM
Haha Hannah looks so nervous it's crazy!
It would've been a bit odd, when she had said something like

"Quick, my cheese waits at Nuthanger Farm. Let's kill the Darkhaven army!"


Kneel down before the greatness of Darkling's dark ... ... ... Darkness!!!
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Offline Naylte

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« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2015, 01:08:58 AM »
I have mixed feelings about the ending. I found it odd that Silverweed, who really was not relevant to anything at all before about episode 33, became the hero. I like him as much as anyone else, but I feel as if there would be more fitting characters to save the day. Like Hannah herself, really. She spent a large part of the series doing her best to help the others while they somewhat shrugged it off (especially Bigwig). This was a perfect opportunity for her to finally fulfill that role. In addition, the emotional aspect would have been better had it been her, since she was around far longer than Silverweed. Actually, the emotional effect also would have been better if Silverweed died rather than grow old like that. In terms of other possible characters, I don't know. Campion could have been a good choice. The problem would be finding a way for another character to actually obtain the magic before using it. As said before, Silverweed was the only one who could enter minds through touch. Other than that, though, I liked the ending. Very climactic.

I was disappointed by the very short fight between Bigwig and Woundwort. It should have been way longer and suspenseful given that fight's importance in the book (Yes, he was holding Woundwort back to buy time in the book rather than having a fight for control of Darkhaven, but the fight in the book was so good!) Something like 30 seconds for Bigwig to fall was just a letdown.

Finally, there should have been more after the battle ended when Silverweed used the magic. You know, more of a conclusion to everything. Instead we just see Silverweed's condition and he says that the dream lives on. The end. It was so sudden! I wanted to see more, like a celebration or something. Anything.

Just my thoughts. Plus I thought a pretty good discussion was going on here so I thought I might put more life into it.  :dandelion
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Offline Acacia Heartstrings

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« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2015, 03:10:59 PM »
The real end is when a Rabbits attracted Watership Down, the dog attacks and kills rabbits Efrafa General Woundwort (That is thought). But for me this well this crazy magic end, there was a good excuse for a war between rabbits for freedom or slavery, besides the appearance of black rabbit Inle.

Bigwig vs Woundwort, I agree, this fight had to be the best in the series. A bitter and violent battle between two strong and fierce rabbits, at least 2 minitos of intense fight, but the censorship in a children's program did not possible. At least the series compensated a bit last season: Hazel, Bigwig, Campion vs Woundort.

 :hazel   :bigwig   :campion   vs   -->   :woundwort
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Offline mistercynical

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« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2016, 03:04:26 AM »
Had a bit of a fridge-door realization;

this is literally the Deus Ex Machina

think about it; a literal god descends from the heavens to solve the writer's unsolvable problem (how can we kill Woundwart & his army, without killing anyone? because kid's show) quickly and completely to lead to a happy ending?

I didn't like the ending if I'm to be honest, but I can't dwell on that because I can't think of a better way to end it.

That said, this ending hurts the rest of the series, as it destroys the "morally grey" aspect of life and it destroys the "faith" part of the rabbit's religion.

When the writers had the Black Rabbit descend down and deliver righteous justice to Woundwart's regime, the writers are essentially offically declaring that Watership Down is righeous, and that Woundwart's army were hubrisic sinners. With that, the writers have dumbed the show down to just Good Guys vs Bad Guys. Which is a bit of a turn around considering the intrepid action the writers took at the end of the second season, when Woundwart was about to give up and offer peace, but Hazel & co. destroy Efrafa anyway. This built Woundwart into a believable character, and also challenged our assumption that Hazel was always fair and pacisiftic; it made Hazel look like a struggling leader doing what he thought was right, as opposed to what is right. Suddenly, he's not the perfect hero! Flaws! What makes a story great! But when the Black Rabbit comes down to saves Watership Down and destroy Woundwart, it means that Watership Down was always and objectively right - the writers burned down this degree of depth and struggle to the characters. The original had the dog released, which was just another witty defense idea that the rabbits came up with - no righteous and devine judgement, just rabbits protecting their warren.

The idea of faith is also destroyed in this episode, as since the Black Rabbit came down and acted, he is therefore objectively and scientifically real - it's no longer a matter of belief, faith, or struggling rabbits trying to explain the tragedy of their existence. The writers, with this move, declared that the rabbit's faith is real, that the black rabbit is real, and that there is a right and a wrong in life. What does that mean for the rest of the universe? The other animals, surely they have their own religions, does this invalidate their religions? What about human religion for the humans in the series? Is the rabbit's gods the only gods?

Oh, and what about the rest of Woundwart's army? Poor, innocent rabbits who are just following orders? Fed lies about a prophecy since birth? Perhaps they're scared that if they don't fight, Woundwart will kill them! Are all of the rabbits that were sucked into the sky truly guilty and deserving of whatever punishment awaits them?

The Magic created a lot of questions, which for me have festered into plot holes, burning through the fabric of a literary universe. Plus, Silverweed was neat, shame he died/lost his youth.
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Offline Samphire

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« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2017, 10:56:09 PM »
Quote from: mistercynical on Jan 1 2016, 10:04:26 PM
The idea of faith is also destroyed in this episode, as since the Black Rabbit came down and acted, he is therefore objectively and scientifically real - it's no longer a matter of belief, faith, or struggling rabbits trying to explain the tragedy of their existence. The writers, with this move, declared that the rabbit's faith is real, that the black rabbit is real, and that there is a right and a wrong in life. What does that mean for the rest of the universe? The other animals, surely they have their own religions, does this invalidate their religions? What about human religion for the humans in the series? Is the rabbit's gods the only gods?

Oh, and what about the rest of Woundwart's army? Poor, innocent rabbits who are just following orders? Fed lies about a prophecy since birth? Perhaps they're scared that if they don't fight, Woundwart will kill them! Are all of the rabbits that were sucked into the sky truly guilty and deserving of whatever punishment awaits them?
You raise a lot of good points.

The film left the Black Rabbit more ambiguous. It was more of a spiritual thing and could have just been within the rabbits' heads. The third series made the Black Rabbit real, and while this does remove the aspect of faith and the chance that rabbits are just trying to give themselves meaning with stories of the Black Rabbit, I think it's an interesting turn of events to see it as a real force of nature - what we didn't see in the film. We now see the Black Rabbit as this fearsome and very real being that claims lives, just like the rabbits see it.  :inle-movie

The existence of the Black Rabbit doesn't necessarily invalidate other animals religions. It could be that the squirrels, cats, dogs etc. all have their own deities too, but this isn't explored because the story focuses on the rabbits. I think by only exploring the rabbit's religion, they're leaving the rest quite open to the imagination.  :inle-series

I thought the same thing about Woundwart's army. Seemed like the Black Rabbit just scooped them all up. But I like to think that the intention is that the Black Rabbit chose those whose time up.