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Author Topic: Chapters 22-24 Discussion (October 16-October 22)  (Read 1384 times)

Offline Chibiscuit

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Chapters 22-24 Discussion (October 16-October 22)
« on: October 16, 2018, 02:11:36 PM »
Discuss away! :vervain2
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Re: Chapters 22-24 Discussion (October 16-October 22)
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2018, 07:17:01 PM »
Chapter 22  :rabscuttle

This chapter tells another story about El-ahrairah, this time the story used as inspiration in the series by the Watershippers to make Vervain seem insane. In the series that episode gave me mixed feelings but that's besides the point here.

What surprised me in this tale was the presence of humans (in the form of a gamekeeper) as I always thought that El-ahrairah's time was without them (as it is often remarked in the book how un-animal-like human behaviour is, I thought humans were considered more of anomaly in their legends. Idk just the impression I had). The fact that Prince Rainbow apparently communicated with the gamekeeper struck me as even odder. I wonder how he appeared before him then?

It amused me how angry and annoyed El-ahrairah and Rabscuttle were at not being allowed to share their hole anymore.  :vervain2

Before the tale of El-ahrairah, there is some more talk at the Down. Hazel seems somewhat untrained at handling a rabbit like Bluebell. I thought this in previous chapter as well but here he shows it again. He seems to think of him as a jester and nothing more. When Bluebell made to speak he cut him off, immediately assuming it would be a joke. I sort of get the feeling he disapproves of Bluebell's joking but perhaps that will change.
Hazel was also rather quick to get annoyed at Dandelion for not cleaning Holly's ear. I understand his worry for infection (as it is very much grounded) but there are better ways to go about this than assuming and grumbling about it behind their backs. Surprisingly un-leader-like behaviour on both accounts from Hazel.

I really like the description at the start of the chapter about rabbits attitude of Life is Now. It would be better not to dwell on the past too much or worry about a far-off future when there are things here and now that need to be focused on. Like the book says,
Quote
But there is grass that must be eaten, pellets that must be chewed, hraka that must be passed, holes that must be dug, sleep that must be slept.
Quite so :yes

Quote
'I'm ready to give a try,' said Silver. 'I reckon it'll be worth it, just to see Bigwig telling bed-stime stories to a mole.'
Silver is quite funny :silver And I'd love to see that tpp :hannah4

There also some more foreshadowing this chapter, to Kehaar this time. I hadn't realized before just how often things get foreshadowed!

(hope I didn't forget anything. I read the chapter earlier but I have had no opportunity to post this, uh, post)
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Re: Chapters 22-24 Discussion (October 16-October 22)
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2018, 01:51:04 AM »
The chapter begins at Watership Down, and Hazel cleans Holly's ear, then explains his idea about helping other creatures.

Hazel seems somewhat untrained at handling a rabbit like Bluebell. I thought this in previous chapter as well but here he shows it again. He seems to think of him as a jester and nothing more. When Bluebell made to speak he cut him off, immediately assuming it would be a joke. I sort of get the feeling he disapproves of Bluebell's joking but perhaps that will change.
I'm not sure if it will change.  Later on, Hazel will get really annoyed at one of Bluebell's jokes and order him to shut up.  Poor Bluebell...

What happened in the previous chapter though?

There also some more foreshadowing this chapter, to Kehaar this time. I hadn't realized before just how often things get foreshadowed!
I hadn't realized this either.  Hazel talks about how useful having a bird friend would be.  This comes long before the realization that they need someone to search for does for them.  I didn't remember that.

There is also a lengthy passage about moonlight, and I like it.

Something I find interesting is what appears to be Holly's reluctance to accept Hazel's authority:
Quote
"You're a clever chap, Hazel," said Holly at last.  "You and your mouse.  Mind you, we'd have found the place sooner or later ourselves, but not as soon as this."
Here Holly praises Hazel, but he still mentions that they would have found the grass at some point, even if the mice hadn't told them.  Hazel did something nice, but everyone would have been fine even if he hadn't.

And, with that, we get to the El-ahrairah story.  While the previous two El-ahrairah stories were told by Dandelion, this one is told by Bluebell, who heard it from his grandfather.  Bluebell would tell at least one more El-ahrairah story in TFWD, and it is easily the craziest of them all.

This one though...like Chibiscuit mentions, El-ahrairah and Rabscuttle intended to share a burrow; no does in sight.  More gay bunnies? :el-ahrairah :rabscuttle Either way Prince Rainbow puts an end to this plan and dumps Hufsa on them.

Hufsa only appears in this story, but he is still mentioned a few times later on in the book.  Notably, Bigwig compares the Efrafan owslafa to Hufsa while on the boat.

What surprised me in this tale was the presence of humans (in the form of a gamekeeper) as I always thought that El-ahrairah's time was without them [...] The fact that Prince Rainbow apparently communicated with the gamekeeper struck me as even odder. I wonder how he appeared before him then?
This is not the only time humans appear in El-ahrairah story.  One also shows up in the story of Rowsby Woof, along with a hrududu.  They also show up on several occasions in TFWD.  But this story appears to be the only time a human interacts with Prince Rainbow (or anyone else).

I too wonder exactly how Prince Rainbow appears to the gamekeeper.  Not just the gamekeeper: he must have also communicated with the human who put wire under a fence, and the one who placed a snare near a barn.  Perhaps Prince Rainbow just implanted the knowledge in their brains while they were asleep? :glowingsw :prince-rainbow

Prince Rainbow really is quite a jerk.  Not only does he send Hufsa to spy on El-ahrairah, but then he grows some carrots, recruits El-ahrairah to help him, doesn't give him any, and warns him not to steal them.  He completely humiliates him.  Or maybe Prince Rainbow just set up a trap for El-ahrairah so he could dispose of him.

Quote from: Prince Rainbow
If King Darzin stole [the carrots], I feel sure that Lord Frith would take away his kingdom and give it to someone else.
I find this passage quite interesting.  I vaguely remember something like this happening in the Bible (without the carrots of course :frith). The rabbits' religion really seems to borrow quite a bit from Christianity.

Quote
El-ahrairah knew that Prince Rainbow meant that if he caught him stealing the carrots he would either kill him or else banish him and put some other rabbit over his people; and the thought that the other rabbit would probably be Hufsa made him grind his teeth.
I have to wonder how Rabbitry would have evolved if Hufsa really HAD become the leader...

Later on, Yona the hedgehog returns.  Interestingly, while in the story of the king's lettuce, he was an enemy of El-ahrairah, here they appear to be on good terms.  Although that might have to do with El-ahrairah bribing him with slugs.  Or maybe they are just two different hedgehogs, both of them called by the Lapiné name of their species.

The scene where El-ahrairah and Hufsa meet Yona, Hawock and Rabscuttle as Frith's Messenger is really funny, I think.

Quote from: Prince Rainbow
Tell me where the carrots are and I will only send you to the great North and not kill you.
The great North isn't really that bad.: ShowHide

They have Arctic Hares!




And then, comes the trial.  This is the only time a trial is mentioned in the entire book.  This is another thing that happens in El-ahrairah stories but not in "reality".  Interestingly, there are only eight jurors, as opposed to twelve like with humans.  But it's all hrair to the rabbits, so I suppose it makes sense.

Also Prince Rainbow has dogs to do his bidding.  And they have been promised the task of carrying out the sentence.

Hufsa's testimony seems to be mostly based on the actual events, apart from the part about El-ahrairah terrifying him into helping him, which he added to make El-ahrairah look more like a jerk in the eyes of the jury.

What happens afterwards, when Hufsa retells the events, is also funny, I think.  It's especially funny how one of the foxes on the jury briefly interrupts things to talk about how he would have liked to eat that random swimming pheasant.  By the time El-ahrairah asks if the stolen carrots were purple with green spots, the elil probably wouldn't have been surprised if Hufsa had replied "yes".

Quote
"So Hufsa went away with Prince Rainbow and El-ahrairah's people were left in peace, apart from indigestion brought on by eating too many carrots.  But it was a long time before Rabscuttle could get his tail white again, so my grandfather always said."
This is the perfect way to end the chapter.  I wonder what happened to Hufsa though?  Maybe HE was sent to the great North for having failed Prince Rainbow?

Like Chibiscuit points out, this chapter appears to have inspired the Great Game series episode.  The scene where El-ahrairah and Hufsa meet the other creatures was almost exactly copied with Vervain and Hannah, right down to the Slug-a-Moon song.  The main difference is that in the series, Hannah convinces Vervain that it all happens through magic spells, while in the book, it is all treated as completely normal.

But rather surprisingly, the El-ahrairah story is mentioned at the beginning of the same episode.  They don't use any fancy animation like with the other stories, they just briefly retell it.  There is a major difference between the book and series version: in the book, Hufsa was Prince Rainbow's spy.  In the series, that is not the case and by the end of the trial, Prince Rainbow is genuinely convinced that he is insane and El-ahrairah is innocent.

But this all raises an interesting question: since the story of the trial of El-ahrairah is well-known to rabbits in the series universe, why doesn't Vervain realize what is going on, and that he is being tricked?  He can't be THAT stupid, right? :vervain-facepalm

Quote
Would that the dead were not dead!  But there is grass that must be eaten, pellets that must be chewed, hraka that must be passed, holes that must be dug, sleep that must be slept.
One of my favourite passages from the book.

Quote
'I'm ready to give a try,' said Silver. 'I reckon it'll be worth it, just to see Bigwig telling bed-stime stories to a mole.'
Silver is quite funny :silver And I'd love to see that tpp :hannah4
We can only hope the miniseries will include this...It's funny to think of Bigwig having a soft side like this :bigwig2
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Offline Chibiscuit

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Re: Chapters 22-24 Discussion (October 16-October 22)
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2018, 07:21:38 PM »
Chapter 23 :kehaar

Quote
Apart from Holly, they were the only two survivors of the Sandlefort Owsla.
This surprised me. I thought Bluebell had been Owlsa as well since it was mentioned that he was one of the rabbits that was with Holly when he had tried to arrest them when they left Sandleford. I assumed that meant he was Owsla since I saw no reason for a non-Owsla member to get involved in the arrest.
But if this is not the case then... Bluebell really is someone else to Holly. A more... exclusive relationship... well that would explain why no-else calls Holly 'Master'.

Quote
'Bigwig, go and get some worms or something, there's a good fellow.'
'Er- what did you say, Hazel?'
This was funny. :hannah4 I read Hazel saying that in a (be-a-dear' sorta way and then Bigwig's incredulous expression. love it  :fiver
The fact that Hazel almost asked whether they hadn't been taught how to dig for worms in the Owsla makes it even better.

Quote
'Ask Bigwig to show you how to get it some food'
So did Bigwig show them how to get worms out of horse-dung then? What a sight that must have been!

Quote
'Owl-time'
This word has appeared before. I just want to say I like it for some reason.  :owl

Quote
At last he looked shrewdly at Fiver and said, 'Eh, Meester Liddle Von, you know vat I pring, ya?'
Does Kehaar know of Fiver's visions? Did Bigwig tell him or does he sense it somehow? This seemed like such an odd thing for Kehaar to notice.

Strawberry being chosen to go and how pleased he was with that was a nice moment. :strawberry

Quote
'Bigwig, rejected on grounds that he might quarrel in strange company, was inclined to be sulky at first, but came round when he remembered he could go on looking after Kehaar.'
I like this passage. It's funny yet accurate because Bigwig would quarrel and then it's cute. I like the friendship between Bigwig and Kehaar depicted here. :bigwig3 :kehaar

And then this,
Quote
Holly himself wanted to take Bluebell but as Blackberry said, one funny joke at the expense of the Chief Rabbit might ruin everything.
...I would love to see Bluebell meet Woundwort and make a joke at his expense. It would not end well but just to see his face...! :woundwort

And Holly wants to take Bluebell along. Of course. At this point I'm not even surprised any more as there is also this:
Quote
[...]until Holly intervened to save his faithful jester from further trouble.

What is happening here why is this reread making me ship Holly and Bluebell? I was not expecting this but I can't say I dislike it either :holly
Now I can't really wait to see them in the miniseries!

Chapter 24  :clover

The chapter in which Hazel asks himself questions and then answers most of them himself. :hazel2

Not much to say about this chapter. Pipkin's enthusiasm at being chosen by Hazel is cute but when is Pipkin not cute? :pipkin

I was surprised at first that Bluebell shares a den with Acorn and Pipkin but then thought, 'Oh right, Holly is away so he probably sleeps there for warmth temporarily' :hedge

"You can come here, the land of warm days, grassy fields, and pleasant evenings, where even the shadow of war cannot darken the love at home." -Alderab

Offline Chipster-roo

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Re: Chapters 22-24 Discussion (October 16-October 22)
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2018, 11:21:16 PM »
So, chapter 23.  This chapter is mostly notable for being Kehaar's first appearance.  When I read the book for the first time, I was quite annoyed that a bird would have an important role in a story about rabbits, but with subsequent re-readings I started to like him.

Kehaar's book portrayal is quite different from that in the adaptations.  In the film, he is the main source of comic relief, while in the book he's not really THAT funny.  In the series, Bigwig really doesn't like him and, on a few occasions, threatens to kick him off the Down.  In the book, meanwhile, these two are become very close friends.  This results in several really cute passages, like Chibiscuit mentioned.  Hopefully the miniseries will handle this relationship well.

Also, I had forgotten how much Kehaar swears.  He says "damn" on a few occasions and, of course, there's this famous line, which made it into the film:


I generally don't like hraka humour, but I agree with @Chibiscuit that the scenes of Bigwig digging through horse manure for worms, and later on teaching others how to do this, are very funny.

Quote from: Hazel
Yes, and you too, Fiver - come out of that rapt trance, or whatever you're in.
Fiver is something else.

Quote
"He says," said Bigwig, looking very straight at Holly, "he says that a long way from here the earth stops and there isn't any more."
"Well, obviously it stops somewhere.  What is there beyond?"
"Water."
"A river, you mean?"
"No," said Bigwig, "not a river.  He says there's a vast place of water, going on and on.  You can't see to the other side.  There isn't another side.  At least there is, because he's been there.  Oh, I don't know - I must admit I altogether can't understand it.
"Was it telling you that it's been outside the world and come back again?  That must be untrue."
"I don't know," said Bigwig, "but I'm sure he's not lying.  This water, apparently, moves all the time and keeps breaking against the earth: and when he can't hear that, he misses it.  That's his name - Kehaar.  It's the noise the water makes."
Lots to say about this.  Firstly, I love this description of the Big Water.  We an clearly understand that it's the ocean, but to the rabbits it's some mysterious faraway land, to the point where Holly believes that Kehaar went out of the world and came back (not unlike El-ahrairah did on a few occasions).  Too bad the series had to make the rabbits visit the Great Water, ruining the whole mystery :katarina and they had to call it the “great waters” instead :vervain-facepalm

Also I never heard water sound like "kehaar"...

Quote from: Fiver
The gifts of El-ahrairah.  Trickery; great danger; and blessing for the warren.
One of Fiver's visions, this one is easy to overlook, since its meaning is not immediately important or obvious.

The bargain story.  This is an El-ahrairah story mentioned by Holly, and unlike some other stories briefly mentioned in the original book, it was not included in TFWD.  This might not be a bad thing, considering how "The Fox in the Water" and "The Terrible Hay-Making" turned out.  But essentially, does can end reabsorb their kittens before they are born, an ability also possessed by real life rabbits.  It is quite interesting, I think, but there is one passage in particular I want to point out:

Quote
"That's because you've never been overcrowded.  But our warren - the Threarah's warren - was overcrowded a year or two back [...]
Holly still refers to Sandleford as "our warren", and surprisingly nobody reacts to that.  Even at the very end of the book, Holly refers to Sandleford as "home".  He never fully got over the warren's destruction...

Quote from: Bigwig
I'm looking forward to a nice doe and a litter of kittens in my burrow.  Lots of little Bigwigs, Hazel!  Think of that, and tremble!
This is just perfect.  Really, lots of little Bigwigs, that would be so cute.  Also this is entirely different from series Bigwig, who didn't care much for romance until he met Spartina.  I prefer the book version.

...I would love to see Bluebell meet Woundwort and make a joke at his expense. It would not end well but just to see his face...! :woundwort
May the miniseries include this! :hannah4

What is happening here why is this reread making me ship Holly and Bluebell? I was not expecting this but I can't say I dislike it either :holly
Embrace the ship.  Draw them together.  Write a fanfic about them.  You're great at both.  Reveal these two buns' secrets to the world! :frith
Have you considered making each day count - doing something meaningful each day - instead of letting the days and weeks and months and years fly into oblivion? --Bright Side

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Re: Chapters 22-24 Discussion (October 16-October 22)
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2018, 01:01:57 AM »
I'm a little late the party, but I wanted to add some thoughts that I don't think have been touched on yet.

Chapter 22

Now, what interests me in this chapter is that, in the story of the trial, the elil are pretty clearly depicted as vindictive towards rabbits. The cat states outright that he hates rabbits. This depiction stands in stark contrast to the rabbits earlier seeming to understand that, yes, elil are just doing what they must, or even in contrast to Toadflax stating that man doesn't hate rabbits, rabbits merely get in his way. The latter point especially interests me because Bluebell tells the Trial story, and earlier, he's the one who says that he knows that humans hate them for stealing flayrah and such.

I don't know if this discrepancy really means anything, but I thought was interesting nonetheless.


But this all raises an interesting question: since the story of the trial of El-ahrairah is well-known to rabbits in the series universe, why doesn't Vervain realize what is going on, and that he is being tricked?  He can't be THAT stupid, right? :vervain-facepalm
I'd say that the exact reason why the story is so truncated in the series is to keep  from Vervain, and, indeed, Woundwort and the rest of Efrafa, looking like a bunch of idiots. They all (plus the audience who may not have read the book) would probably make the connection if, in the show's canon, the story went like it does in the book.

Plus, leaving the story as a synopsis gave the show's writers more room to lift directly from it.

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Re: Chapters 22-24 Discussion (October 16-October 22)
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2018, 01:07:29 AM »
Also, and apologies for the double post first thing, Bluebell and Holly, good ship. If Bluebell's not Owsla, sounds like they have a very close relationship. Very close.

Also also, when Prince Rainbow came around to tell El-ahrairah and Rabscuttle that they can't share a burrow, all I could think was, "What do you mean I can't sleep with my husband?!"

El-ahrairah, many wives, one husband.

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Re: Chapters 22-24 Discussion (October 16-October 22)
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2018, 06:16:40 AM »
Chapter 23 :kehaar

Quote
Apart from Holly, they were the only two survivors of the Sandlefort Owsla.
This surprised me. I thought Bluebell had been Owlsa as well since it was mentioned that he was one of the rabbits that was with Holly when he had tried to arrest them when they left Sandleford. I assumed that meant he was Owsla since I saw no reason for a non-Owsla member to get involved in the arrest.
But if this is not the case then... Bluebell really is someone else to Holly. A more... exclusive relationship... well that would explain why no-else calls Holly 'Master'.

Now I can imagine Holy and Bluebell having a night tryst in a moonlight, when they are interrupted by Owsla member who report a gathering of Hazel and other rabbits. Holly and Owsla member go to investigate it and Bluebell comes along, because he would be damned if he let his "Master" face a bunch of troublemakers (and possible mutineers) without him at his side.

Thank you for putting that idea in my head.  :p
"My heart has joined the thousand, for my friend stopped running today." - Hazel

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Re: Chapters 22-24 Discussion (October 16-October 22)
« Reply #8 on: October 26, 2018, 12:03:52 AM »
Chapter 24

that quote ys crazy why does old englysh have so many y's

One interesting thing is that Nuthanger Farm, in the book, appears to be some distance from the Down, while in the series, it is plainly visible from the top.  Also, in the film it is extremely close to what it looks like in reality.  I wonder what the miniseries will do.

This chapter is the first time we meet the four hutch rabbits: Clover, Boxwood, Haystack and Laurel.  Out of these, Clover is the only one to get any significant character development, and she seems to be the strongest (both physically and mentally) of the four.  I don't really mind the lack of character development for the others.

Clover is also the only one to appear in both the film and the series; in neither adaptation is she depicted as a "short-haired black Angora".  Although, by definition, Angoras have long fur... :bigwig2

The miniseries lists Clover as appearing in all four episodes, and Haystack in episodes 2 and 4.  No mentions of Boxwood and Laurel anywhere.  I don't really mind, honestly, but this might mean that the Sandleford gang would reach Nuthanger Farm much earlier than in the book.  Might be interesting.

Pipkin, just like in both adaptations, is tasked with looking for cats.  He does a much better job here than in the series, where Fiver has to save his life.  WHY DOES THE MINISERIES NOT HAVE PIPKIN :pipkin-oh

Quote
Kehaar had had a violent quarrel with a kestrel, screaming insults in a voice fit to startle a Cornish harbour
That's an...interesting way of putting it :hawkbit

Quote
A batsman who has played a fine innings will say afterwards that he felt he could not miss the ball
Baseball reference. @Claws

Quote
and then, suddenly and beyond doubt, [the smell of] rabbit.  [Hazel] looked at Pipkin and saw that he, too, had caught it.
This is just beyond cute.

Quote
Hazel could not see a chain; but then, after a moment, he noticed the line of a thin rope that came out through the kennel door and ended in some sort of fastening on the roof.  "Why a rope?" he wondered and then thought, "Because a restless dog cannot rattle it in the night."
This detail is easy to miss at first, but it will be very important later on.

Also also, when Prince Rainbow came around to tell El-ahrairah and Rabscuttle that they can't share a burrow, all I could think was, "What do you mean I can't sleep with my husband?!"

El-ahrairah, many wives, one husband.
Now I can imagine Holy and Bluebell having a night tryst in a moonlight, when they are interrupted by Owsla member who report a gathering of Hazel and other rabbits. Holly and Owsla member go to investigate it and Bluebell comes along, because he would be damned if he let his "Master" face a bunch of troublemakers (and possible mutineers) without him at his side.
...these are just perfect.  I love this.
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Offline Chibiscuit

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Re: Chapters 22-24 Discussion (October 16-October 22)
« Reply #9 on: October 26, 2018, 03:24:03 PM »
What happened in the previous chapter though?
I was thinking of the moment when Holly and Bluebell are asked to go up the Down in chapter 20:
Quote
'Captain,' said Bluebell, 'do you know what the first blade of grass said to the second blade of grass?'
Hazel looked at him sharply, but Holly replied, 'Well?'
'It said, "Look, there's a rabbit! We're in anger!"'
'This is no time-' began Hazel.
'Don't silence him,' said Holly, 'We wouldn't be here at all without his blue-tit's chatter. Yes, I can go know.'
Holly is clearly having a hard time and Bluebell sensing this cheers him with his joke but Hazel fails to notice this. Even when Holly indulges Bluebell by answering, Hazel starts to rebuke Bluebell only for Holly to interfere. And look, after Bluebell's silly joke, Holly is ready to go!

When I first read it I assumed Hazel reacted thus because it was the first time he was confronted with Bluebell's personality but it seems like he continues to struggle with dealing it and even underestimating Bluebell. And if this really doesn't change then yeah, poor Bluebell...

Hufsa only appears in this story, but he is still mentioned a few times later on in the book.  Notably, Bigwig compares the Efrafan owslafa to Hufsa while on the boat.
Interesting comparison that. I do wonder where Hufsa is from and how he came to be in the service of Prince Rainbow. Well, I imagine Rainbow approached him and offered him the reward of taking El-ahrairah's place? Or maybe Hufsa was just crazy loyal to Rainbow and was therefore chosen as an easily controlled pawn... maybe that's where the comparison comes from?

I too wonder exactly how Prince Rainbow appears to the gamekeeper.  Not just the gamekeeper: he must have also communicated with the human who put wire under a fence, and the one who placed a snare near a barn.  Perhaps Prince Rainbow just implanted the knowledge in their brains while they were asleep? :glowingsw :prince-rainbow
I can actually see that being the case. Must be weird to wake up one morning feeling the overwhelming urge to put a snare in that very specific spot. He would run the risk of the human not doing it anyway despite it all though and I can imagine Prince Rainbow would not be all too pleased with that. :prince-rainbow

Prince Rainbow really is quite a jerk.  Not only does he send Hufsa to spy on El-ahrairah, but then he grows some carrots, recruits El-ahrairah to help him, doesn't give him any, and warns him not to steal them.  He completely humiliates him.  Or maybe Prince Rainbow just set up a trap for El-ahrairah so he could dispose of him.
I get the feeling it's a bit of both. He doesn't seem to like how uncontrollable El-ahrairah is so he wants a different rabbit to be Chief (a rabbit like Hufsa who will do as he's told) but he also seems have some grudge against him almost so I think he enjoys tormenting El-ahrairah like this as well.

There is a major difference between the book and series version: in the book, Hufsa was Prince Rainbow's spy.  In the series, that is not the case and by the end of the trial, Prince Rainbow is genuinely convinced that he is insane and El-ahrairah is innocent.
I think therein lies the reason I like the story in the book more. I don't like how they convinced even Vervain himself that he had gone insane. That's just... really not nice and not a good message.

But this all raises an interesting question: since the story of the trial of El-ahrairah is well-known to rabbits in the series universe, why doesn't Vervain realize what is going on, and that he is being tricked?  He can't be THAT stupid, right? :vervain-facepalm
I'd say that the exact reason why the story is so truncated in the series is to keep  from Vervain, and, indeed, Woundwort and the rest of Efrafa, looking like a bunch of idiots. They all (plus the audience who may not have read the book) would probably make the connection if, in the show's canon, the story went like it does in the book.

Plus, leaving the story as a synopsis gave the show's writers more room to lift directly from it.
Well the series' writers probably did it for the reasons Hammy said but writers aside, I thought the reason the Efrafans didn't notice was because maybe under Woundwort's rule stories of El-ahrairah weren't being told anymore? As in, Woundwort would rather keep the trickster nature out of the Efrafans.

Clover is also the only one to appear in both the film and the series; in neither adaptation is she depicted as a "short-haired black Angora".  Although, by definition, Angoras have long fur... :bigwig2
That was my first thought too but then I figured maybe he meant that her fur was cut short? ...which means Clover will have lots of problems in the wild once it grows back... :clover

WHY DOES THE MINISERIES NOT HAVE PIPKIN :pipkin-oh
Having witnessed how adorable Hazel and Pipkin's relationship is in the book this bothers me a lot more now as well.

Also also, when Prince Rainbow came around to tell El-ahrairah and Rabscuttle that they can't share a burrow, all I could think was, "What do you mean I can't sleep with my husband?!"

El-ahrairah, many wives, one husband.
Now I can imagine Holy and Bluebell having a night tryst in a moonlight, when they are interrupted by Owsla member who report a gathering of Hazel and other rabbits. Holly and Owsla member go to investigate it and Bluebell comes along, because he would be damned if he let his "Master" face a bunch of troublemakers (and possible mutineers) without him at his side.
...these are just perfect.  I love this.
100% agreed :vervain2

and,
Thank you for putting that idea in my head.  :p
You're very welcome ;)  It's nice that it's the other way around for once :p

Also I never heard water sound like "kehaar"...
Me neither but now I am going to pay extra attention the next time I visit the sea and listen. Though, if they means the waves crashing against the cliffs I can't really confirm as we don't have cliffs at the sea here...

What is happening here why is this reread making me ship Holly and Bluebell? I was not expecting this but I can't say I dislike it either :holly
Embrace the ship.  Draw them together.  Write a fanfic about them.  You're great at both.  Reveal these two buns' secrets to the world! :frith
Thanks Chipster :fiver That's nice to hear^^
...and I can't deny that I am VERY tempted to do so...
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Offline MeadowRabbit

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Re: Chapters 22-24 Discussion (October 16-October 22)
« Reply #10 on: November 14, 2018, 01:20:16 PM »

Quote
A batsman who has played a fine innings will say afterwards that he felt he could not miss the ball
Baseball reference. @Claws

No way, not Adams, not in this country - he's referencing Cricket!  :pipkin

I might not have taken part in this, but it is interesting to have a little read to see what you all think about the chapters. :)
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