Chapters 1-5 Discussion (July 30-August 5)

[Hawkbit]

Chapter 4 - my comments are similar to Chipster's. We start seeing more of the gang that come to join Hazel and Fiver.  Actually hearing all their names again--Acorn, Buckthorn, Hawkbit, even Silver to a point - I remember very little about the book characters.  I don't remember defining features or skills of these rabbits.  I remembered Silver being in the Owsla but can't recall any major difference he made in the novel or if he was ever given a large role.  The other three certainly didn't get anything.  I couldn't tell you what my namesake did in the book (but certainly could for the series!).  Just too many characters to develop perhaps?

Actually near the end of the chapter, we see that Dandelion jumps into the fray to fight Holly and the Owsla off.  I don't remember movie or series Dandelion being so interested in fighting given the chance.

[Hawkbit]

Chapter 5 - what I take away from chapter 5, is more about how rabbits are in real life.  Mr. Adams mentions how its very unnatural for rabbits to move any long distances in real life without a hole or something to quickly scamper into if danger arises.  This is evident when Bigwig brings up how tired (mentally and physically) Pipkin and Fiver happened to be.

Another thing chapter 4 gives us is a segue into the El-ahrairah character.  Compared to Brer Rabbit and other tricksters of folklore, he is described as the being that gives rabbits all their tricks to survive.  It makes for a good description of "rabbit religion" or something very similar--describing why rabbits behave the way they do.  Of course we'll hear more about that in the next chapter with Dandelion's El-ahrairah tale but this piece makes the rabbits of the story more human (I'll refrain from saying  anthropomorphized because they really are not) because humans have always used Gods, spirit animals or creatures to explain the unknown.  Rabbits do so as well, at least according to the chapter here.

[Chibiscuit]

Hazel could recall Hawkbit - a rather slow, stupid rabbit whose company for five snowbound days had been distinctly tedious.

I kinda feel like writing a fanfic describing these five days

5 days of =>  =
(It does seem like fun to torment Hazel a bit... I wonder what Fiver thought of it all?)

Buckthorn, Acorn and Speedwell don't really get much info.  Also it's interesting how it's Dandelion who brings Hawkbit along, while the other three were chosen by Blackberry.  Perhaps that explains their bromance in the series?

That could very well be their reason for choosing Hawkbit out all the minor characters. The fact that he had not much characterization allowed the series' writers to shape him more freely as well.

---
Chapter 5

I really like the way the rabbits perception of the woods is shown is this chapter - every single noise, movement, smell- it is all frightening and signals potential danger. The writing brings this feeling across quite effectively I think. Poor rabbits - every single thing increases their stress level even more. No wonder they were exhausted.

We also learn some more about Dandelion- he's very fast (in contrast to his series' counterpart- I believe in season 3 there was instance Dandelion couldn't keep up?) and a storyteller. Also quite perceptive, as he picks up on Hazel's intent at the end of chapter pretty easily.

It's a bit telling that only a few rabbits are mentioned this chapter - Hazel, Bigwig, Dandelion, Fiver and Pipkin. It's as if the rest isn't there. I suppose mentioning them all would be too forced but it is a bit odd and makes it easy to forget they're there.
(I'm used to that from the Warrior Cats series though)

And as @Hawkbit mentioned, we get our first glimpse at 'Rabbit Religion' which is interesting. Also I learned some new things this chapter: Brer Rabbit and John Henry- no clue who they were so I looked them up. The comparison of El-Ahrairah to the others I get but the one to John Henry I find a bit odd -but perhaps I'm missing something here.

Also, on a linguistic note, I was surprised to see that 'to stamp' is an actual English term, at least in the meaning of 'to thump'. I find it interesting because I have a thing for linguistics because 'stampen' is the verb of the same meaning in Dutch.
(In Bambi, the Dutch name for Thumper is Stamper)
Edit: actually considering words like 'to stamp out' and 'stampede' perhaps I shouldn't have been so surprised but still....

[Chipster-roo]

Just too many characters to develop perhaps?

That makes sense.  Most character development seems to be about only a handful of rabbits; the odds are that nothing much was lost by excluding Acorn, Buckthorn and Speedwell from the film and TV series.

5 days of =>  =
(It does seem like fun to torment Hazel a bit... I wonder what Fiver thought of it all?)

He might have been just as annoyed as his brother.  Or perhaps he just stayed in a corner of the burrow meditating on his visions, ignoring Hawkbit entirely.
I really should write that fanfic

Chapter 5.  It's a rather slow chapter.  Several paragraphs are spent describing the area where the rabbits are, and how afraid and tired they are; this is well-written.

We do get a bit of character development for Dandelion, how he is the fastest of the group and an expert storyteller.

We also learn some more about Dandelion- he's very fast (in contrast to his series' counterpart- I believe in season 3 there was instance Dandelion couldn't keep up?)

I just took a look; yes there is, in The Betrayal.  Spartina is leading everyone to Darkhaven.  Hazel and Bigwig are ahead, followed by Hawkbit, and finally Dandelion and Fiver, far behind.
We're slow, but steady...
*both rabbits collapse on a fallen tree trunk*
No, I think we're just slow...

Also, during the dog run in The Invasion, the dog almost kills him and Fiver has to save him...
I really prefer book Dandelion.

As for the first mention of El-ahrairah...I had forgotten about it, I thought that the blessing story was the first introduction to him.  What I find the most interesting about this is the fact that he can control the weather.  I don't remember this happening in any other stories, either in this book or in TFWD.

I don't really understand the comparison with John Henry either...

One last thing:

the extraordinary, rank animal smell that seemed to come from somewhere rather nearer [than owls]

I have a feeling this might be the lendri who shows up at the beginning of chapter 7.

[Chibiscuit]

That makes sense.  Most character development seems to be about only a handful of rabbits; the odds are that nothing much was lost by excluding Acorn, Buckthorn and Speedwell from the film and TV series.

If they had been in the TV series they would've most likely just been another addition to the randomly appearing and disappearing background rabbits...

He might have been just as annoyed as his brother.  Or perhaps he just stayed in a corner of the burrow meditating on his visions, ignoring Hawkbit entirely.
I really should write that fanfic

That's some snowfall. Good thing we got to this burrow in time
  ...I sense danger...!
  Danger? wha-
  Hullo
  ...Fiver, Let's -
  *meditating*
(I would to read that )

I just took a look; yes there is, in The Betrayal.  Spartina is leading everyone to Darkhaven.  Hazel and Bigwig are ahead, followed by Hawkbit, and finally Dandelion and Fiver, far behind.
We're slow, but steady...
*both rabbits collapse on a fallen tree trunk*
No, I think we're just slow...

I thought so. I remember finding it odd because to me Dandelion looks build to be fast. I had actually expected Fiver and Hawkbit not being able to keep up.

I don't really understand the comparison with John Henry either...

Glad it's not just me then...

One last thing:

the extraordinary, rank animal smell that seemed to come from somewhere rather nearer [than owls]

I have a feeling this might be the lendri who shows up at the beginning of chapter 7.

I think so too. Some more foreshadowing (after Fiver's dream), this one a bit more immediate though.

[Chipster-roo]

If they had been in the TV series they would've most likely just been another addition to the randomly appearing and disappearing background rabbits...

In that case, it's probably better that they weren't included.  It was annoying to see Holly, Blackavar, Strawberry and Periwinkle vanish like this...

That's some snowfall. Good thing we got to this burrow in time
  ...I sense danger...!
  Danger? wha-
  Hullo
  ...Fiver, Let's -
  *meditating*
(I would to read that )

This is perfect
Hopefully I'll be able to start work on it soon, although Possibilities is keeping me busy

First I want to see your comments.     

A bit off-topic, but love that Ubuntu sticker


I saw that the thread for chapters 6 to 10; I'll start reading them tomorrow

[Acacia Heartstrings]

Chapter 3 - very short chapter, but it shows the amount of discontent within Sandleford warren, that captains like Bigwig or smart bucks like Blackberry could be convinced to leave the warren for the dangers of the unknown.  It isn't known how bad things are, but it must be quite bad for them to quickly just side with Fiver and Hazel without really knowing them.  It seemed to just happen quite quickly.  They just take Fiver at his word.  Reading it again, I'm surprised it was such a short transition.

Let too much time pass.
I'll just make a few observations. In chapter 3 bigwig is one of the many rabbits that are dissatisfied in his life with the Owsla, so he decides to go with Hazel and the others, besides that he does not like his current work XD. Blackberry arrives at the same conclusion and that good because it is the most intelligent of the group. Already for the fourth chapter there are enough characters and rabbits in action towards their pilgrimage.

But I must emphasize that all this only started with Fiver and his visions. Otherwise nobody would have been saved, it can be said that his powers are a blessing and a curse at the same time.
Each rabbit in this story brings his help with his unique skills: Dandelion stories and best runner, bigwig the warrior, Blackberry the brain of the group, Hazel the wise leader, Hawckbit the precabed and querulous, pipkim with his incense can befriend other animals , etc. It is very worthwhile to bring out the abilities of each rabbit.

But Fiver is a key piece in this whole story to save their lives. only matched or surpassed by Silverweed.         

[Chipster-roo]

Everyone brings their on contributions to the group

But Acacia is right.  Fiver is the best bun





(images borrowed from @florapaw and @Owsalfa respectively)

[Acacia Heartstrings]

Fiver is a love. But also the main reason why everyone is alive and for which Watership Down exists. There is enough to thank him for.

[Chibiscuit]

Glad to see you join in, Acacia! And yes, very true. Without Fiver there would not have been a Watership Down!