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Author Topic: Did anyone feel unsatisfied at the endings?  (Read 3546 times)

Offline Keith

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Did anyone feel unsatisfied at the endings?
« on: August 30, 2011, 11:51:27 AM »
I first watched the movie, and at the end I was unsatisfied. I still thought it was the best animated movie ever, but I wanted more. Bought and read the book, and it explained a lot more than the movie, but still, I wanted more. Watched the tv series, and when it was starting to get really good, it ends, and doesn't even explain what happens after, I want to know what happened!! I want more!!! Did anyone else feel this way?
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Offline Hawkbit

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Did anyone feel unsatisfied at the endings?
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2011, 01:14:45 PM »
**SPOILERS--LOTS OF THEM**











Well, I was one of the people that read the book before watching any of the media.  So I was well aware of how the book ended.  The film ended in the same way...Hazel dies and you're left to guess whether he's seeing the Black Rabbit of Inle or Elahrairah.  Its said in the credits of the film its the
Black Rabbit, but when Hazel first sees the spirit, you think Elahrairah and not the god of death.  Peculiar.  I was happy with the ending because its what the book said, and that's just the way it was.  There was no extensive epilogue to continue on with.  Tales was written twenty years later.

The tv series had a lousy ending.  I always wondered when I first saw the third season how they planned to end this.  They took the easy way out with the magic storyline, though I must admit the scenes with the Black Rabbit were far more interesting here than they were in the film.  Now THAT's what I expected the god of death to act/sound like! :exactly  He isn't supposed to be a loving god of death based on what you read about him.  (This is partially why I thought it was Elahrairah speaking to Hazel in the film.)  But anyway, what do you expect from a tv series based on the books...you knew they were going to take liberties somewhere with the story...it just seemed too easy.  I don't gather how much the rabbits would sorrow for Silverweed...he came on to the series very late, and I didn't gather he did much on the downs when he was there.  The loss would have been symbolically greater if one of the main rabbits took the fall, and not a character that nobody had any deep emotional attachment too.  I not knocking Silverweed here, I actually like the guy...he can't win no matter what he does....but I think it would've meant more to kill him using the magic than sapping his youth.  Would've definitely been more in tune with the books had something like that happened.

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« Last Edit: August 30, 2011, 01:15:34 PM by Hawkbit »

Offline Keith

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Did anyone feel unsatisfied at the endings?
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2011, 01:26:14 PM »
Its not like I didn't like the endings of the novel and movie, it's just they left me wanting so much more. One of the reasons I liked the TV series so much was because in terms of story (especially in season 3) it gave me so much more than the movie ever could, and had a story almost as good as the book, excluding the magic bullcrap, which i could forgive simply because of the Black Rabbit of Inle'.
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Offline Hawkbit

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Did anyone feel unsatisfied at the endings?
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2011, 04:35:04 PM »
Well, wanting more as you put it, got us the Tales From Watership Down which unfortunately was very disappointing if you wanted to know more about the rabbits from Watership Down.  Sometimes wanting more isn't always a good thing! ;)  I felt it was enough.  You could go on of course, but I would think you'd see more of what you already saw--raids on the farm, entrance of new characters (Bark, the bats, Scree), nothing totally different because they kept as close to natural as possible.  These rabbits aren't going to be singing Broadway-esque songs, wearing clothes, or building cities.  So really, what else could you do that had not already been done in the tv series already?  I thought the trip to the market and the sea was pushing things!

Offline Folgrimeo

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Did anyone feel unsatisfied at the endings?
« Reply #4 on: August 31, 2011, 07:21:40 PM »
It's a common trick to leave you wanting more when something ends, that's great praise for a work. Assuming it's the "that was so awesome, I want more!" sense and not the "they could have had more in it, you know..." sense.

If it's the former, then I guess British TV shows have routinely done that sort of trick, only lasting a couple seasons before bowing out. After all, leads to less risk that a successor will tarnish its image -- even though Hollywood's been killing several shows/movies due to endless sequels. Also it can be painful to wait for something that may never come. People love the Sly Cooper videogame series, then Sucker Punch went on to other franchises and never looked back. One company was upset enough about this that they're bringing a 4th Sly game to fans - after they showed they could handle it by being responsible for the high-definition Sly Collection.

But what if it's the latter, that they didn't do enough? I thought it was just fine how it ended (then Tales of Watership Down had to ruin it, but anyway), and I wouldn't have wanted the book to be any longer. Now, yes, I'm a little sore about how short the movie is, they could have put in some more elements from the book to flesh things out. Maybe it had to be that short to keep the kids happy, but it's really not a kid's film. Same reason I was disappointed in the third Harry Potter movie. It was the shortest of all the Harry Potter films (though that's not saying much when they're all about 2 1/2 hours), so you think they'd have room to include a few important details. Details that would take no time at all to explain to people who never read the book on how they made some particular leaps of logic. And I recall people complaining from the first movie how they didn't mention Nearly Headless Nick when he had a storyline-important scene in a later book.

Here's the trouble though: any book is going to be difficult to adapt to film or a TV series, stuff has to be cut out and occasionally embellished. The WD film did well overall in its adaptation. Can't speak for the TV series as I haven't seen it. The Redwall TV series was shaky at first but adapted its material pretty well, especially given how much longer a series can be than a movie. Makes me wonder why there aren't more books adapted to TV series (...oh right, money).

The movie of The Trumpet of the Swan is an interesting case. Put aside that everybody hates it except  me. Yes they switched events around in the timeline, including having an important climatic scene early on. But here's the catch, they somehow made it work and still got all the important scenes in one way or another. You wouldn't know the events were switched unless you read the book. So films have to make sacrifices and occasionally put in original content to make a book work. I may be cynical about whether a particular adaptation will be good, but I know now that it's not impossible.

Offline Keith

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Did anyone feel unsatisfied at the endings?
« Reply #5 on: August 31, 2011, 09:16:28 PM »
Quote from: Folgrimeo on Aug 31 2011, 03:21:40 PM
It's a common trick to leave you wanting more when something ends, that's great praise for a work. Assuming it's the "that was so awesome, I want more!" sense and not the "they could have had more in it, you know..." sense.

If it's the former, then I guess British TV shows have routinely done that sort of trick, only lasting a couple seasons before bowing out. After all, leads to less risk that a successor will tarnish its image -- even though Hollywood's been killing several shows/movies due to endless sequels. Also it can be painful to wait for something that may never come. People love the Sly Cooper videogame series, then Sucker Punch went on to other franchises and never looked back. One company was upset enough about this that they're bringing a 4th Sly game to fans - after they showed they could handle it by being responsible for the high-definition Sly Collection.

But what if it's the latter, that they didn't do enough? I thought it was just fine how it ended (then Tales of Watership Down had to ruin it, but anyway), and I wouldn't have wanted the book to be any longer. Now, yes, I'm a little sore about how short the movie is, they could have put in some more elements from the book to flesh things out. Maybe it had to be that short to keep the kids happy, but it's really not a kid's film. Same reason I was disappointed in the third Harry Potter movie. It was the shortest of all the Harry Potter films (though that's not saying much when they're all about 2 1/2 hours), so you think they'd have room to include a few important details. Details that would take no time at all to explain to people who never read the book on how they made some particular leaps of logic. And I recall people complaining from the first movie how they didn't mention Nearly Headless Nick when he had a storyline-important scene in a later book.

Here's the trouble though: any book is going to be difficult to adapt to film or a TV series, stuff has to be cut out and occasionally embellished. The WD film did well overall in its adaptation. Can't speak for the TV series as I haven't seen it. The Redwall TV series was shaky at first but adapted its material pretty well, especially given how much longer a series can be than a movie. Makes me wonder why there aren't more books adapted to TV series (...oh right, money).

The movie of The Trumpet of the Swan is an interesting case. Put aside that everybody hates it except  me. Yes they switched events around in the timeline, including having an important climatic scene early on. But here's the catch, they somehow made it work and still got all the important scenes in one way or another. You wouldn't know the events were switched unless you read the book. So films have to make sacrifices and occasionally put in original content to make a book work. I may be cynical about whether a particular adaptation will be good, but I know now that it's not impossible.
For the movie and book, It was the former. they were so awesome I wanted more. For the TV series, I just wished they would have explained what happened after the battle. Like, what happened to vervain? or granite for that matter?
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Offline Keith

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Did anyone feel unsatisfied at the endings?
« Reply #6 on: August 31, 2011, 09:19:44 PM »
oops, Double post.
« Last Edit: August 31, 2011, 09:27:39 PM by Keith »
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Offline Myrkin

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Did anyone feel unsatisfied at the endings?
« Reply #7 on: August 31, 2011, 09:57:07 PM »
Exactly. They were the only ones from Woundwort's army that survived. It would be nice to know that they had their happy ending too. ;)

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Offline Hawkbit

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Did anyone feel unsatisfied at the endings?
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2011, 12:54:28 AM »
The only one I gather that likely survived was Vervain...I didn't gather that Granite had survived too...

Offline Owsla-rah

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Did anyone feel unsatisfied at the endings?
« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2011, 12:05:06 AM »
Quote from: Quote:on 
Well, wanting more as you put it, got us the Tales From Watership Down which unfortunately was very disappointing if you wanted to know more about the rabbits from Watership Down. Sometimes wanting more isn't always a good thing!

To be honest, I personally liked the second book even though it was not as good as the first. Because their where a few good chapter in it. I personally liked The Fox in the Water, The Rabbits Ghost Story and for some reason I also liked parts of Speedwell's Story. And I was allso quite satisfied with the rest part three of the book.

Quote from: Quote:on 
The tv series had a lousy ending. I always wondered when I first saw the third season how they planned to end this. They took the easy way out with the magic storyline,

I definitely agree with you Hawkbit. I really hated the the way it ended. It is one of the many thing didn't like about the T.V. series.
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Offline Hawkbit

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Did anyone feel unsatisfied at the endings?
« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2011, 09:49:39 AM »
Quote from: Quote:on 
To be honest, I personally liked the second book even though it was not as good as the first. Because their where a few good chapter in it. I personally liked The Fox in the Water, The Rabbits Ghost Story and for some reason I also liked parts of Speedwell's Story. And I was allso quite satisfied with the rest part three of the book.

Actually the stories are the piece most of us like.  The epilogue to the Watership Down warren is what we generally found disappointing.

Offline Darkling Nocturnal

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Did anyone feel unsatisfied at the endings?
« Reply #11 on: October 20, 2011, 05:21:56 PM »
Now, I have to say something to the end of the tv series:

When I heard, that it ends "magical", i suspected the worst.

But you get the first information, that something like magic exists in the series, in episode  2.10 - Mysterious Visitors.

At the latest, you know in episode 3.08 - Darkhaven how the series will end.

And bash me, but i was satisfied with the ending of the series.

By the way: You don't see how silverweed dies, but when you remember the words of the Black Rabbit of Inlé, you know, he did:

The Black Rabbit says to Campion "You will live and your friends will live, but someone must call me from beyond the shadowlands, so I can claim what is mine".

And why has Silverweed to die? Simple: Campion died in the caverns, but he was brought back to life by the Black Rabbit of Inlé (he has the scars, because Spartina has to mistake Campion - she thought, it was Woundwort, the "One-eyed Evil"), because he has to handle Woundwort over to the Black Rabbit. Because he's alive, someone else must die to recover the balance between the world of the living and the world of the dead. And this is Silverweed.

I hope, my words are comprehensible.

By the way, I got some own theories of the third series of WSD on my website (but unfortunately, it is only in german yet).


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Offline Myrkin

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Did anyone feel unsatisfied at the endings?
« Reply #12 on: October 20, 2011, 06:22:30 PM »
Quote from: Quote:on 
The Black Rabbit says to Campion "You will live and your friends will live, but someone must call me from beyond the shadowlands, so I can claim what is mine".

You could say that Black Rabbit meant Woundowrt here. I mean, if Woundwort was somehow destined to die at the end of season 2 in Battle of the Caverns, then by saving him Campion changed what was meant to happen. According to this theory, Black Rabbit needed to intervene directly in order to set everything straight. He brought Campion back, because the latter was meant to live and he killed Woundwort, since General was meant to die.

Here is another theory: by "claim what is mine" Black Rabbit meant his authority over death and dying. Woundwort was seizing that authority by calling himself "bringer of doom in the name of Black Rabbit of Inle". As we remember, from the scene where these two talk with each other, Black Rabbit wasn't pleased with that.

I don't think that Silverweed died at the end of the series. Some times after that event, yes, but not then. If Black Rabbit of Inle needed to take Silverweed's life to bring balance between the world of the living and the world of the dead, then he would had done so immediately and not just stripped poor rabbit off of his youth. I am just not sure, if there is any balance to be kept. Everybody is going to die eventually.

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Offline Hawkbit

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Did anyone feel unsatisfied at the endings?
« Reply #13 on: October 20, 2011, 11:42:11 PM »
Quote from: Quote:on 
And why has Silverweed to die? Simple: Campion died in the caverns, but he was brought back to life by the Black Rabbit of Inlé (he has the scars, because Spartina has to mistake Campion - she thought, it was Woundwort, the "One-eyed Evil"), because he has to handle Woundwort over to the Black Rabbit. Because he's alive, someone else must die to recover the balance between the world of the living and the world of the dead. And this is Silverweed.

Actually, I disagree with the part about Campion dying and then being brought back.  I would say he just never died in the first place because the Black Rabbit didn't want him yet, so his spirit never leaves his body behind.  I don't think Silverweed is meant to settle any balance, but often the price of saving one is the loss of another.  I think the fact he isn't dead at the end, is the simple fact of the target audience of the tv series.  If it was originally part of Adams' plotline, he'd be deader than dead. ;)

Quote from: Quote:on 
Here is another theory: by "claim what is mine" Black Rabbit meant his authority over death and dying. Woundwort was seizing that authority by calling himself "bringer of doom in the name of Black Rabbit of Inle". As we remember, from the scene where these two talk with each other, Black Rabbit wasn't pleased with that.

This is exactly how I've always interpreted what it was the Black Rabbit was after.  He never was after Campion...not yet anyway. ;)

Offline Darkling Nocturnal

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Did anyone feel unsatisfied at the endings?
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2011, 02:59:09 PM »
Your theories were also good.

Anyway, I persist in my viewpoint.

But that's the reason why I love the tv series and especially the third season:

There is no ultimate or definitive clearing up.

You can interpret so many things in the third season in your own way.

*gush* :wub ehm, oops  :bolt

I think it is time to watch the series again (can't count how many times I've seen it before)  :D


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